Zinc Media Group (LSE:ZIN) — Interim Results

0:02 Good morning ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the ZINC MEDIA GROUP PLC interim results investor presentation. Throughout this recorded presentation, investors will be in listen only mode. Questions are encouraged and can be submitted at any time using the Q and A tab situated on the right hand corner of your screen. Just simply type in your questions at any time and press send. The company may not be in a position to answer every question received during the meeting itself. Have the company review all questions submitted today and publish responses where it's appropriate to do so. Before we begin, as usual, we'd like to submit the following poll, and I'm sure the company would be most grateful for your participation. I'd now like to hand over to CEO Mark Browning. Good morning.

0:34 Morning. Thank you, Mark. Morning, everybody. Thanks for joining us this morning. Good to see you again if you joined us not that long ago when we had the last update around our recent acquisition. But this is our interims update, short presentation for you this morning. And then as as Mark says, happy to take any and all questions if you have them. So we'll get straight into it and straight underway, with our summary,

0:58 which is excellent, I think, for where we sit today. Market forecasts were reissued for the first time in many years, certainly, or long time before I joined ZINC. So we think over five years ago, the last time market forecasts were in in the public domain. So they've been reissued. They were issued in August for the remainder of this year and for next year and for 2024. So that is a critical step on the journey that we've been on. People can now price our company for the first time in many years, and the critical news is that we are trading in line with these market forecasts. You can see on the screen in front of you, revenue is going very well. We will pull out some additional highlights for that in a minute.

1:44 But we are very pleased with the return to really significant revenue growth when you compare this half year to last half year. Losses significantly reduced as a result. The EBITDA performance is lagging behind that revenue growth, and that is due to the fact that we continue to invest in a number of new initiatives around the group. We're launching new businesses. Some new businesses in new markets are at slightly lower margins than we have now to become come to expect as we try and move into those markets. And we've got new sales hires where the cost hit in the first half of the year, but the revenues will follow in the second half of the year. So we'll give you a little bit more color on that. But the full year revenues now standing at 27,000,000, which is actually slightly ahead of our our market expectations, but not not enough to warrant any upgrades yet.

2:41 Gross margins doing well at 33%, significantly up on 2019 when Will and I joined. Strong balance sheet, good cash position and The Edge. The acquisition of The Edge was supported by every one of our institutional investors and some significant new ones, as well as high net worth individuals, and we were able to do a a private investor opportunity as well through a new platform called Rex. Edge performing very well. Integration now underway, so we are on track against all of our critical KPIs as it were and against market expectations. So let's put a bit of color on that for you. For those that perhaps are new to our story or less familiar with the group, ZINC MEDIA GROUP consists of television and ZINC COMMUNICATE.

3:32 Each serve the other with television giving that perhaps that reputational and creative firepower and ZINC Communicate providing real commercial support to the television groups. We trade under labels in television and in ZINC Communicate we now have The Edge alongside our existing publishing, brand entertainment, poll and audio businesses and corporate film businesses. Some new additions to this slide for those that are more familiar with it than others. Rex, we launched in the first half of this year. I'll come on to that in a minute. And Bumblebee post production, we've launched post period end. And, of course, the Edge is also new. We'll talk about more of those, as we come through. But that's the structure of our group.

4:19 Let's talk a bit about television and how revenues are doing there. Really pleased with the performance of television here, but with with a lot more headroom to go. So the new hires we've made, so this REX label is not delivering any revenues, hasn't delivered any revenues in the first half of the year, so it's building its pipeline. But you can still see the growth of those TV revenues in the first half of the year and that's because of these investments we made eighteen months ago, 2020, early twenty twenty one, in the likes of Super Collider and the likes of Redsource and repositioning Brooklapping. So we spoke together at the time about the need for us to reposition this group, to broaden our television cell, so that we are still doing the big reputational high end premium documentaries, but we're also moving more into other areas of factual, popular factual and factual entertainment and into new buying markets as well. So that is working and you can see the revenue growth there. And with the launch of Rex at the start of this year, we expect to see further growth in television as we go through into next year.

5:29 Just a heads up that we are likely to start to, sunset one or two of the heritage TV labels, those that, you know, predate our time here and have been around for a long time. It's our new labels and the new talent we're bringing to the group that is really driving that growth. So some of those labels will start to fall away, and we'll focus on the ones that are really giving us the highest level of return and the best performance. So that's television. ZINC Communicate, growing very well from a a low base, but on track this year to, deliver revenues of between four and five million across the group. Profitability is lagging, in this division. It's still in start up territory, but we believe it can be an 8 to £10,000,000 turnover, division within the wider group. And with high gross margins, that is the sort of business that you want to be in, because it can be a good profit center on a relatively, compared TV, a relatively low, revenue base. But look. It's growing very, very well. It's doing everything we want it to do.

6:33 And we have track record here having built a similar business of that sort of size, 8 to 10,000,000 at good margins in our former life. So we believe in it, and it works very synergistically with the rest of television. Let's talk about the edge briefly. This this is obviously new, post period end. So their their numbers will start to hit our numbers from September. For those that are less familiar with this acquisition, we we completed it and announced it in August this year. Edge have been around for thirty odd years, so founded back in 1990. They've got premises in Covent Garden in London and out in in Doha in Qatar. Employ around 60 people, round about a 100 clients, and they are one of the largest brand and corporate film businesses in The UK. So a very strong track record. Again, good gross margins, all the sort of stuff that we look for in a in a healthy acquisition.

7:32 They do some of the work that we also do in ZINC MEDIA, so those brand films and those corporate films, but also take us into new markets, markets that we think we can accelerate growth in around elearning, learning and training films, animation films. The cat aside also excites us about the potential opportunity there too. What do they do? Well, there's some there's some brands on here that I've I've put on, and I'll just pull up, two or three of them. AstraZeneca is one. If you have AstraZeneca product within you from the vaccine rollout or the booster programme, then you might be interested to know that when AstraZeneca cracked the vaccine and found the solution to this COVID pandemic, they phoned up the edge and said we want you to tell our story.

8:20 We trust you to get access to our laboratories and our technicians and our scientists and to tell our story to both the world, but also to our internal stakeholders. So that's one of the partners that the Edge work with. Amazon. Amazon at some point during the last year, there were certain weeks where Amazon was recruiting up to a thousand new employees every week, which is a colossal onboarding exercise, and they now work with The Edge to help communicate internally what is involved in joining Amazon. So lots of films around both individual specific jobs, but also the culture and the history of joining a company like that. FIFA is another one on here. That is a Qatar based client now. So, if you wanna do business in Qatar, you have to do business with Qatari based companies. And Edge has been based there for ten years. So if you're FIFA and you turn up with the World Cup, you need to procure your services from a CATA based company.

9:19 And, Edge is one of a very small number of production based companies, so the Edge is supporting FIFA on the rollout of their, their TV commercials and their other production centered around the World Cup. So just a few illustrations of the sort of work they do, but the synergies they have with a television company are fairly obvious to us. If you think about how we make documentaries and factual programmes, it often involves access to trusted people or trusted places, often telling sensitive stories. And that's the same in Edgeworld. The difference is the buyer there is a brand or a business, and the buyer in television is a broadcaster or a channel. But, ultimately, it's factual based storytelling where integrity is at the heart of what they do.

10:06 And the other things I'd point out with the edge as we now move into owning them, they are on for their best year ever, which is excellent news for them and for us. We will get four months of that into our numbers. Their previous highest year was just under 10,000,000, and last year, 8.2. So they will, exceed their highest ever year this year, which is a good start for everybody. And the next thing to sort of point out is the integration conversations. These were part of our agreement. We have agreed the principles of how we want to work together in an enlarged group, the benefits they will get from being part of the ZINC group and the benefits ZINC will get too and the synergies the opportunities to drive greater performance. That is well underway.

10:53 So we're pleased with the progress of The Edge. Let's talk a little about some of our creative highlights. I've put up a few on the screen here. These are from the first half of this year. We did announce the winning of this public, properly procured tender from the BBC. BBC One Sunday Morning Live, one of their tenders that comes out every so often. This is program. It sits on BBC One at 10:00 after the Laura Kunzberg political program. It's a multiyear contract. In order to win that kind of business, which is beneficial to us for two or three reasons, the size of the contract, the fact that it's multiyear, so forward visibility on revenues is really valuable, and it takes us into a new place in factual TV. It takes us into live.

11:44 To break into those new markets, we have opted to do so at a slightly lower margin than we've been familiar with because we have to partner with another company. ZINC traditionally has no history in live TV. So if we wanna convince the client to trust us to make something that we historically haven't made, we need to partner with other people. And in this case, that means we have to share some of the margin. But I do think that if we're gonna move our company into these new places, better to do so in that sort of strategic position where, in effect, you are using the cost of sale to get into new markets rather than your own cash or investors' money or what have you. And then, of course, we aim to grow in that market, and that is a strategic decision. We've got one or two of those now in our pipeline and in our numbers, and that is one of the reasons why there's this short term but strategic decision to just, enter these new markets, and it will mean that our gross margins drop ever so slightly for this year.

12:47 But revenue growth, diversification going very well. Look at the, the spooked Scotland program here. That's from Warner Brothers Discovery. New clients, good commission there, already recommissioned, but not publicly announced, so we haven't yet called that out. But it is in that 27,000,000 of revenue that we've announced. Two programs to to sort of remind everybody of the reputational work that ZINC does. Tom Daley, illegal to be me for BBC one, Big reputational one offs. This program was picked up everywhere. Features on the, you know, the front pages of many of the national newspapers and picked up on radio programs and television programs and talk shows. Premium reputational TV, the same with the Afghanistan programme on BBC two, which marked the twelve month anniversary of the withdrawal from Afghanistan, that chaotic withdrawal where all those pictures of those poor Afghans holding onto the size of airplanes and so forth and getting over the the airport perimeter.

13:46 That's exactly what ZINC still does. It was what ZINC used to really only do, very much that premium high end one off factual television. So we still do it, and it's very, very important for us and our clients. But look how we've broadened out over the last two or three years into programs like Spooked, which is for a brand new buyer, like Sunday Morning Live, which is a new genre, like Bargain Loving Brits in the Sun for channel five, which is now 54 episodes and running in daytime as well as peak time. Audience is doing very well. And it also runs across other Viacom channels, So it's a strong pillar of their output. It gives a very clear idea to us and to them of what ROI, what return on investment can do in television when you can run a a title like that in multiple ways. And we only launched Redsource, remember, in 2020.

14:38 One of those investments that is driving that performance in TV and why we are confident that the continued investments in some of these television genres will drive further growth next year and beyond. And then I'll put out unprecedented here, which is for discovery, unprecedented access to the Trump family during the last US election, which also showed, where they would were and what they were saying and doing while the Capital Building was being stormed. What they probably didn't realize was that that such brilliant access, meant that our footage was then subpoenaed by the senate committee investigating, the storming of the capital. So it tells you kind of illustrates the power of ZINC's access and ZINC's place at the table of world events.

15:25 I want to play you one short trailer. This is for a new production, which was only launched on Monday this week. This is the trailer. The programme launches globally next week. And for those who are new to our story, we launched a label called Super Collider last year. It's run by the producer and director, Mike Christie. Red Bull is one of our new clients, and they are spending big money in television production that sits on Red Bull TV and on social, social channels as well. Now they've returned to work for us this year. And this week, we've launched the latest project for them. It's called Space Jump, and this is the trailer of it. The film, as I say, gets worldwide release next week. So it marks the tenth anniversary of Felix Baumgartner's jump from space, becoming the first human being to to break the sound barrier. I mean, he his his speeds exceeded that of a bullet.

16:32 So the story is to mark the tenth anniversary, but it's also to tell the behind the scenes story of how this piece of content changed the way content is delivered. It remains 10 on the most watched live stream ever, half the world's population watched this. Nearly crashed the internet, nearly crashed YouTube, so it doesn't just mark the anniversary, it tells the story of how now as a result of this event, you now watch the internet is the first port of call for consumer content, you can watch the Champions League online, why sport is now dominating much of Amazon stuff. It was this big event that really accelerated the growth of live streaming online. So we're pretty excited by the sort of content that we make in ZINC Media Group, whether it be the traditional work for BBC One or this sort of new space we're in, this amazing content for the likes of Red Bull.

17:30 So look. It's astonishing the content we're now making, and this is obviously really really just getting into this new phase of ZINC Group. So we've got really exciting ambitious plans for the kind of content we're gonna tell in the years ahead. Just to be on ZINC Communicate, growing well as I've shown you, working with all sorts of new clients. Just pick out two here. Sustainable Travel International is an organization, umbrella organization we work with producing films for many of their members all around the importance of sustainability in the travel sector. So we're working with big global airlines, tourist boards, energy suppliers, all all telling their stories through the power of film. Discover Saudi, again, spent a sort of television sized budget with us on a five part digital piece of content in partnership with the independent newspaper as their distribution partner distribution partner. In effect, it's the Saudi Tourist Commission using power of film to promote them as a destination. So it's brand funded content. Very similar content to what The Edge make, and our audio and radio businesses continue to grow well as well.

18:36 I just want to just draw attention to the investment point I made earlier, and I can see some of you have asked some questions about this in the chat room. So revenue is really accelerating, up 54% in the first half of this year compared to the first half of last year. But that EBITDA, while losses are narrowing, we haven't you know, we're not really accelerating through the profit line yet, but it's coming. And the reason is we're still making these investments ahead of further revenue growth next year, which is why these forecasts are very important to us. Three areas of investment that have happened in the first half of this year. So this Rex and Bumblebee initiative. So Rex is a new television label, which as I say is building a pipeline now for next year and beyond.

19:27 And this is in an area of sort of popular factual factual entertainment. So typically prime time where tariffs are slightly higher than daytime, developing formats and and shows that can both work in The UK but then be sold internationally both as individual television series but also as formats. And that is where there is a more lucrative market in factual than the big premium singles that ZINC still does, but now it does a much wider range of factual. So we're we're really keen that people understand that all these initiatives are about building a long term sustainable diversified television business. Bumblebee post production, is a new initiative to take our current infrastructure and all of our technology that we've invested in around The UK, in Northern Ireland, in Glasgow, in Manchester, and in London, where we've put in this new technology that means we can make our programs at better margin and a bigger scale.

20:34 Where we have underutilized or unutilized resource, we are now selling that to the

20:40 open market, and we're selling it as bumblebee postproduction. It's part of initiative from our new CTO who joined us this time last year. It's very high margin business when you win it because in effect, there are no minimal incremental costs of doing this. And we have all the facilities to do it. Clearly, when we're full, we can't do it. But if we're not full in those downtimes, we can now commercialize our technology. And we've called it Bumblebee postproduction because it is also going to be a carbon neutral solution for postproduction, which is what a lot of TV companies need to demonstrate and for their clients too that we are net zero. So that is the purpose of Bumblebee post, and we hope to see good revenues come from that in the years ahead at high margins. And then in ZINC MEDIA, we're still hiring salespeople.

21:34 We've hired salespeople in the first half of this year, but their sales won't hit our numbers until the second half and next year as well. So those three initiatives, in those three areas are meaning that while the revenue growth is smashing it, there is a lag, a purposeful lag in that EBITDA performance as we look to next year and beyond, and that's what the forecasts are in the market to explain. A little bit more on the numbers. I'll let Will take over from here for a minute. So in terms of this six months to June, I think we covered quite a lot of this, but revenue up 50% year on year to almost 11,000,000. See the gross margins there, 33% in the first half of the year, 1% down year on year due to this strategy to add these two high volume, lower margin contracts in Sunday Morning Live and Bargain Loving Brits.

22:31 But crucially, those margins of 33% are still well up on the 25% that they were back in 2019 when Mark and I arrived. You can see the EBITDA loss of 600,000 in the first six months is a £05,000,000 improvement year on year.

22:52 And as Mark's just highlighted, that EBITDA is suppressed by continued investment in anticipation of further growth in the second half of the year and then going forward into 2023.

23:07 I think if we go on to the full year. So looking at the full year, we have currently booked £27,000,000 of revenue that's expected to be recognized in this year's accounts, and that is 10,000,000 more than at the same point in 2021 for recognition in that year. And it's also coincidently 10,000,000 more than we announced in May this year for recognition in this year. So that additional 10,000,000 of revenue that we've won in the last four months or so, roughly about a third of that revenue comes from this big 54 episode commission of Bargain Loving Brits for channel five. About a third of it comes from The Edge as we will consolidate just over four months of their trading into our numbers this year, and about a third from ZINC MEDIA and other television commissions.

24:07 And and that was COVID impacted particularly at the beginning of the year. And we're now a group that is double the size we were in 2021 with pro form a revenues of 35,000,000. And that shift, that growth is both organic growth and also relates to the acquisition of the Edge. So ZINC, excluding the Edge, have been growing revenues, and it's partly due to the bounce back from COVID, but also due to successful new business winning hires and the new businesses that we've launched.

24:56 So with the addition with the the recent additions of the Rex TV label and Bumblebee postproduction, it now means that we've launched seven new businesses in the last two and a half years. And the five that we previously launched back in 2020 and early twenty twenty one, they generated 5,000,000 of revenue into twenty twenty one's accounts, and that will increase this year. And then the edge have averaged 9,000,000 of revenue over the last ten years, and they expect to be well upon that this year and post their best year ever. So the organic growth plus the acquisition of the Edge puts us at double the size we were in '21. Now we've spent the last three years fixing the business under the bonnet, sorting out the gross margins, sorting out the spine of the group so that we can expand diversifying revenue, and it all provides the ability for us to grow. And then in the last twelve months or so, our mantra has been all about scale.

26:01 And we're now at that 35,000,000 plus scale, which means that we can be profitable, and it provides the springboard for further growth and then getting to 50,000,000 plus as as the as the next step. And I can see some of you have asked some questions about that, in the chat, so I'll just come on to those in a minute. But let me just sort of bring all that together. So market forecast back in the market, reissued in August for this year, next year, and the year after, and we're trading in line with those. That's really important as part of this whole jigsaw puzzle of telling the story. Revenue is growing really well. Organic revenue is growing really well. That's the really important one of our really important metrics as well as acquisitive opportunities and revenue growth. It's the organic revenue growth.

26:50 Bookings for this year, really looking strong. Pipeline for next year and beyond, looking strong. Edge, well, doing really well on for their best year. Integration underway. And then looking ahead, you know, at these market expectations. We're really clear we wanna just keep in line with those, the new enlarged group looking good, and on track for all of our metrics. So that's the presentation. Happy to jump and take some questions, Mark, if you want me to. That's great. Yes, that will, Mark. Thank you very much indeed. Ladies and gentlemen, please do continue to submit your questions using the q and a tab. Just situated on the right hand corner of your screen, but just while Mark and Will take a few moments to review those questions you submitted already, I'd just like to remind you that recording of this presentation, along with the copy of slides and the published Q and A can be accessed via your investment company dashboard.

27:38 Mark, Will, as you can see, you've had a number of pre submitted questions and a number of questions throughout today's meeting. So if I may hand back to you, Mark, and just read out the questions and give a response, that'd be great. Okay. So we tend to like to answer all the questions. So I'm just gonna read them out. What's the likely impact of, on ZINC of the current economic issues. What's the likely impact of ZINC on the current economic impact of the current issues?

28:03 Which issues, I guess, but, assuming we mean here the the headwinds, The UK recession, the changes of inflation, all the rest of it. So in television terms, what tends to happen in a downturn, an economic downturn where people have less disposable income, is that they stay home more and watch telly more.

28:26 So audiences for TV are very likely to go up. I mean, we saw this in COVID too. We saw it in the last recession and the last economic downturn. So with people having less disposable income, they will stay home more and they will watch more television. So television will be in a good position, and that doesn't necessarily mean that advertisers will follow the rise in audiences on TV. So there's lots of different economic models in television. If you are a PSB, if you're the BBC, you're largely insulated from short term hits like this because your license fee is negotiated on a multiyear deal with the government. So your tariffs, your ability to spend are insulated from what might be going on in the wider economy.

29:12 If your ITV or commercially funded channels like channel five, you may see your audiences go up, but your advertisers go down because your advertisers are saying to themselves, well, even if I advertise on telly now and I know I will get a good bang for my buck because the audiences have gone up, there's no point advertising to my potential consumers because they don't have enough cash to spend on my product even if I told them about it. If you are a cable channel or a subscription channel or an SVOD channel, you may see people pulling off their subscriptions even though television is going up.

29:49 So the channels will look at that going, the audience is there. We need to build the relationship with our audience, but we have less money to do it. And what they will turn to is factual television because it is cheaper television to make than drama or sports rights or other things. But it also rates well. May not rate as well as a new exclusive drama, but it will certainly rate well, and therefore, it will be able to deliver against the demand of that increased audience and and give, therefore, the channel a chance to balance up the need of their audience with their potentially,

30:26 less advertising revenue. So they'll still be able to buy new programs because they can buy factual cheaper, so their budgets will go further and deliver to their audiences. So we kind of think that audiences may go up, advertising may go down, factual TV may go up, and the other thing that tends to happen in recessions is brands use content to make their spend go further. So if they might pull off some of their above the line marketing in outdoor or cinema or or commercial spots, they will typically push their their spend onto other other types of content, the likes of Red Bull and Lego that we work with, and they will move that onto social media. So we are we are reasonably well placed to, withstand the impact of any of the current economic issues.

31:14 Next question. I understand you've been investing ahead of the growth curve, which I think is right the right thing to do. When do you expect profitability to come through? Will, do you wanna take it? Let's take yeah. So so that is correct. We have been investing, ahead of growth because it is critical that we get to scale. And at around a 35,000,000 revenue group, we're now at that first scale milestone. And as a result, we expect profitability to follow. And that accords with the brokers forecast that route in the market, which have 36,000,000 of revenue and a million of EBITDA profit for next year. Let's look at another one here.

32:02 What are your main investors saying?

32:04 We just finished the full round, the last week and this week. I mean, they're really pleased. They're really pleased, and they're highly supportive. They every single one of our institutional investors supported the acquisition of the Edge, and we attracted some sizable new institutional investors as well as well as high net worth individuals and private investors. So, everybody is pleased with the long term with the three year journey we've just done and with the outlook for the next three years. They are encouraging us to keep investing for further growth, particularly around diversification, which has been our mantra for the last three years and in, obviously, in in people and talented people. I think what I've been, inspired by and reminded by is that in these sorts of economic environments, small companies keep growing and larger companies don't.

32:57 And many of our investors, see their best returns from companies like ZINC, from smaller companies in the public market with good headroom with a small market share in big markets that can grow even during economic downturns as opposed to much larger companies which will struggle to grow. And they're very pleased with the performance of the edge, as are we. And it's early days, but it looks like, they're they're on for their best year, and they're looking in a in a strong position. So that's that's some of the themes that our investors are talking about. Or can you expand on the bum I'm just looking at my screen here. I'm not turning away from you all, but this is where the the the questions are. Can you expand on the Bumblebee offering? What it is, how it works, why it's unique, what's the addressable market? I think I've hopefully, I've answered that.

33:46 It is our way of selling to the open market our technology solutions, our innovation in technology, as all of our people. It's all networked together. So if somebody wants to, make something out of Northern Ireland or or Belfast, or Northern Ireland or Glasgow or Scotland rather, then they can. Or if they wanna do it in London, we can move footage around the country. It's very, very clever. It's highly automated. It's all brand new. It's run by a brilliant team of people, and we think we can take it to the market. So it's unique for a number of reasons, and and this commitment to being net zero positions it differently to other technical solutions or post houses in The UK. The addressable market is is many, many hundreds of millions, and we need to pick up a very small amount to make a big difference to our bottom line, particularly as it's high margin.

34:34 What are your thoughts on further m and a? So we we've continued to explore it. We've made it really clear in every public announcement that this group will grow to a significant size by organic growth and acquisition. So we're gonna keep talking about how our organic growth is doing, what we're investing in further organic growth, and you've seen this the stats on the growth of organic businesses in the last six months.

35:02 And we will continue to look for scale where we can find good acquisitions at sensible multiples on in businesses that we already have understanding of or that are adjacent to things we currently do. So we hope to continue to look at those in the years in the year ahead. Next one. As a long term shareholder in ZINC, my stake in the company has been hugely diluted over the years. I was not quick enough to be able to take advantage of the latest discounted share issue, which was open and closed in a matter of hours. Well, everybody, my view of this company was that it was much more interested in making films and creating shareholder value. Can you give us a few benchmarks to prove that you are any different from the previous management? When will you start paying a dividend? Let me break that up then.

35:50 So I understand long term shareholders have been very bruised by this experience, and I would point you to the longest, probably the longest shareholder on our institutional register, Herald, who've been with the company over a decade and who are the largest shareholder and are very, very supportive. So I understand the history here. All I can point to is what we're doing about the future. This issue about rate you know, how we go about rate allowing all investors to take part in opportunities when we find acquisitions. I mean, it's a very difficult area for us because we're not fully in control of this. We speak to our brokers and say, look. We want every investor to have the opportunity here. And the way it has to work as we are guided to do so is you open these things up at seven in the morning, and then they have to be open for a period of time.

36:39 And I totally empathize, and I I I made this point time and again with our brokers about are we really serious that if someone doesn't see something at seven in the morning and happens to be very busy and have a real life doing other things and the whole thing's over and done with by 11:00? Now in this case, it's still you know, there is still a very good opportunity to invest in ZINC. So whether or not there was the opportunity on that particular morning, that is how it is. The alternative is to not do it at all, which I think is worse. So we can do it within the the rules of the of the of the process as advised by our professional advisers on how to do these things, or we don't do it at all. And I think we should do it for that reason. But anybody can buy into ZINC at any time. And if you look at the forecast and you see the valuation of our business based on those forecasts and you see the price today, you will draw your own conclusions as to whether you should continue to invest or not.

37:33 Can you give us a few benchmarks to prove that you're any different from the previous management? And the answer to that is I I understand the tone of what you're saying, and I'd say read everything I've said for the last three years. I think it's pretty clear that there are many, many benchmarks. I've made it very clear why the company underperformed. I made it very clear what needed to happen in order to fix the underperformance. I've made it very clear we've delivered on all those things. So all the benchmarks are there around margins, around revenue growth, around diversification, around culture. So they're there to read. And when will we start paying a dividend? Will, do you wanna pick up on that? Well, I think I think it really relates to the point around profitability. We know that we need to get to scale first and by organic and acquisitions.

38:26 And once we have that profitability, we can then look at what we're doing with the profits, with the cash, how much is reinvested in organic growth, how much goes towards other potential acquisitions, and whether we pay a dividend. So we we look forward to the point where we're having those deliberations. So thank you for the question. Lots of really important stuff to add in there. Another question here. How much of edge revenue is FIFA? This will disappear, question mark. I'm not going to I'm not gonna mean, probably because I have to look it up, but the the what we can tell you is that the CATA based business that is inside the edge is about a third of their total turnover.

39:23 In terms of what what may or may not happen with FIFA, I mean, it's it's not so binary that it's going to swing a number. It's an important client, and we were talking about them only this week because they've they've bought some more business from the edge in the last few weeks. And it's a relationship that obviously is because of Cater, but once you've built a relationship with a client like that, you can take that relationship forward in other places. So I think our edge colleagues would feel very comfortable about the position they're in with their overall CATA business. And this is a state that you know, it's a bit like we did when we had the Olympics here in this country. Know, there were then events and events and events which ran on and on in years afterwards. So Qatar is a country that is investing very heavily in content and in storytelling.

40:13 Okay. It's got a platform right now in the World Cup, but I think our edge colleagues feel very confident that they can continue to grow that business once the World Cup is over, and they can continue to have relationship with clients like FIFA when this World Cup is over and they're talking about the next one. I think the other thing it's just worth reminding people about, we mentioned it when we when we did the acquisition, is that across the whole of the edge, over three quarters of their revenue is from repeat customers. You know? So it's a significant amount. So, yes, there will be some that don't necessarily return year on year. And even if FIFA were one of those, there is a large amount that is from repeat customers. And then the the other point that Mark just made around Qatar, you know, it's a huge growth opportunity there.

41:04 There's a lot of money being spent as they look to transition away from from reliance on oil, and and we think we're in a really, really good place to make the most of that. Let me ask another one. This might be supplementary one. So Herald's long term support for ZINC is the main reason why I still hold the shares. Are the company forecast publicly available to small investors? The answer is yes. They are. And, I mean, I agree, by the way. I think it's very one of the reasons I joined the company was is was because of Harold's fantastic support and ability to continue to support and their ambition for this company, all of our institutional investors. And I hope all our investors, whether big or small, actually, see this as a long term, you know, three to five year journey where this thing can really accelerate to scale.

41:57 And we don't wanna you know, we we we don't wanna run a sub £50,000,000 turnover because we want to run a 100,000,000 plus company. That's the market that we're in. Clearly, we can't get there organically. We're gonna have to do it through organic and acquisition, but that's the size of the prize, and potentially beyond. So you've got to ask ourselves, and we ask ourselves, what do we have to believe if we're gonna get there? We have to believe that we know what we're talking about. We're in the right markets. We've got the right people, and we have the backing and the means and the strategy to get there. And I really believe we have, which is why new people are joining us, whether they be staff or investors. So I think we're very aligned, you and I, when when you ask that question and the and the management team. So, the forecaster in the market. Others who know better than this will know where to find them, but you can find them on places like Bloomberg and, also a fact FactSet.

42:47 FactSet. Thank you all. So a bit of googling, a bit of hanging out on Bloomberg and Factset, and you'll see them there. Or, you know, ask our brokers. They'll they'll help you out too. That's great, Mark. Will, I think you've taken every question as you always do from investors. So thank you to everybody for your engagement this morning. I know you've probably summarized throughout in these questions, but I wondered if I may, Mark, just ask you for a few closing comments. I know investor feedback is important, after which I'll send those on the call to give you their thoughts and expectations. When we meet again in March, April for our end of year results, this is what I'm hoping I can say. This is what we're on for. I wanna be saying to us, our staff and our investors and ourselves, did we deliver 2022 in line with forecast?

43:35 Are we starting 2023 in line with forecast? And how are the edge performing? Are the edge performing well, and are the integration opportunities advancing well? We say yes to all those things. We're in the best possible place in six months' time to talk about the next growth phase of ZINC, organic and acquisition. So I'm pretty clear what the KPIs are when we talk here in March and April on our end of year results performing in line with the market expectations for this year and next, edge doing well and integrating well, and what's the next big thing on the horizon. That's great. Mark, Will, thank you very much indeed for updating investors this morning. Couple's asking investors on the call not to close this session as we're now automatically redirect you for the opportunity to provide your feedback in order the management team could better understand your views and expectations. This may take a few moments to complete, but I'm sure will be greatly valued by the company.

44:32 On behalf of the management team of ZINC MEDIA GROUP PLC, we'd like to thank you for attending today's presentation. Good morning to you all.