Mobius Investment Trust (LSE:MMIT) — Investor Presentation

0:01 Good morning, and welcome to the MOBIUS INVESTMENT TRUST PLC Investor Presentation. Throughout this recorded presentation, investors will be in listen only mode. Questions are encouraged and they can be submitted at any time using the Q and A tab situated on the right hand corner of your screen. Simply type in your questions and press send. The company may not be in a position to answer every question received during the meeting itself. However, the company can review all questions submitted today and publish responses what is appropriate to do so. Before we begin, I would like to submit the following poll. And I would

0:32 now like to hand you over to founder and portfolio manager, Carlos van Hardenberg. Good morning to you. Good morning, everybody, and thank you for participating in today's webinar. Thank you for taking the time. I intend to go through the presentation relatively quickly so we have time for q and a. And that allows me to start right away. So let's dive into this. As you know, emerging markets are going through a very interesting period and have been actually going through quite a volatile period over the last couple of years. This year is the first year where it at least appears that the global investor community is again beginning to be slightly more interested in the opportunity in emerging markets. And the emerging market universe itself has been largely, dominated by news flow out of China, has been very much impacted by geopolitics recently.

1:40 So we'll talk a little bit about this. But, most interestingly, really, what we like to do is also talk about companies and individual opportunities that we see evolving. And the next couple of years, and that is something we can say with a certain degree of certainty is... Are looking, yeah, I would say, more more promising than what we have observed over the the last couple of years. Nonetheless, the performance of the MOBIUS INVESTMENT TRUST since inception back in 2018 has been solid. We've delivered a decent performance against peer group and the and the benchmarks. This year has been more challenging with China delivering pretty strong performance since the news flow around deep sea and some of the technology developments we are seeing there.

2:38 Also, defense names have done really well this year. But the next years will certainly be even more exciting, and that's exactly what we'll talk about. So what you can see here is actually what we have observed over the last couple of years. And as I said, it's been volatile. It's been challenging. Emerging markets over the long term have really delivered very robust performance. Emerging markets equities have outperformed the global stock market by over 200% in the last thirty five plus years. But there were different periods between '87 and 2000. The emerging market index did really well. Between 2000 and 2010, Again, MSCI emerging market delivered robust performance and then a long period of underperformance between 2010 and 2020.

3:31 And, yes, it's partially China, which didn't do well, but also many other emerging markets didn't do as well as The US market as the magnificent seven. And now, of course, the big question is where are we now and what should we expect going forward? Couple of top down observations that are always relevant...

4:00 Ever larger role than than in the previous episodes. Great example, that we witnessed last Friday or the beginning of this week, where the elevated tension between, The US and China has caused pretty significant volatility. And, we expect this actually to continue for quite some time. The tension is there to stay. The tariff episode, you know, while some people hope it's behind us, I think we have to assume that it'll it'll continue, and the tension will continue. But apart from the weakening dollar, apart from the elevated valuations in The US, we are seeing plenty of very promising conditions in emerging markets, which bode really well for rerating going forward.

4:56 And, of course, the rerating is more than right. Valuations are at at levels we haven't seen in decades. So the the gap between multiples of The US and other developed markets and emerging markets is as wide as it gets. And more importantly, earnings prospects continue to become even more robust. Emerging markets have embarked on a path of becoming a lot more competitive. Business models have become a lot more competitive. The macroeconomic conditions, whether it's in Latin America, across Asia, and mostly across all emerging markets, look more robust than they have in the past. India, of course, stands out as a market which offers particular opportunities because of a very, very benign industrial policy, the government is supporting, and a very diversified and broad offering across different sectors, different business models, which are increasingly not just offering exposure to India, but also exposure to the rest of the world with India becoming more important and better positioned in the global export market. But, again, also across Southeast Asia, we're not just we shouldn't just be looking at China. There are many markets like Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam,

6:27 where we are finding companies that are getting ready, to embrace the opportunity in in very different fields, and that's something we'll we'll talk about. So I I think it's fair to say that the coming years will will certainly provide us with opportunities, which are very promising across across EM. If I just go to the next slide here... Here, you can... Just before we get to the the the strategy itself, I'd like to summarize one more time sort of the the overall opportunity. Number one is really earnings growth. While earnings haven't been growing that rapidly in all of the past couple of years, we're seeing that...

7:13 '26, '27, we're seeing a breakout, and that's based on various trends. One is certainly related to AI and high performance computing, new chip technology, which is coming out next year, but also the still normalization of the consumer in emerging markets after a prolonged period of lower confidence, partially impacted by the COVID episode, but also more recently, geopolitics and tariffs. We're seeing that the consumption trends look positive in in markets like... There was some of the largest markets like India, but also across Latin America, Brazil, and Southeast Asia. So earnings growth is going to come through, of course, supported by higher GDP growth. Overall, the GDP conditions... GDP growth conditions in emerging markets now look very, very favorable.

8:15 Monetary policy advantages, we're seeing further easing of

8:23 monetary conditions in emerging markets, more room to lower rates, which will help certainly to lift some of the pressure off consumers and corporate, you know, CapEx spending with financing becoming more affordable. But first and and foremost, we're impressed by the technology leadership, the innovation we are seeing across emerging markets, and then really moving ahead, taking away market share from domains that were previously occupied largely by, developed market economies And whether, you know, we're talking about, especially right now, infrastructure developments and and and data centers, for example. I mentioned high performance computing. I mentioned some of the new chip infrastructure, which which is being developed. So, again, here, emerging market companies are certainly at the forefront.

9:16 And all of that together at attractive valuations. So that mix is is is what we are seeing right now. And and coming to emerging market, the emerging... The the MOBIUS INVESTMENT TRUST. So, basically, as I said, we started this seven years ago. We've got... The the key differences between what we're trying to achieve in the typical EM fund is number one, we have a very high active share against the benchmark. So you would naturally expect relatively different results, and that has clearly shown over the last couple of years with overall significant outperformance. We had very strong years. We had weaker years like the last year where we certainly didn't participate, or this year where we didn't participate in the China trade and where especially defense names, tech names, highly leveraged businesses did really well based on a lot of speculative buying. I would also like to point out the fact that a lot of the, yeah, shorter term momentum in China is not necessarily based on fundamentals.

10:30 The Chinese consumer continues to look very weak. The numbers are actually deteriorating further. The only area that is seeing interest by investors is tech. And, again, here, companies are not perfectly suitable for this strategy because of governance problems, because of regulatory, weaknesses, because of, yeah, the lack of predictability we are seeing in many of those business models. But, nonetheless, we're observing the space very closely. We are rather trying to get exposure to this opportunity via other countries, via the sort of... By Korea, via Taiwan, and other countries which do business in China.

11:19 The other main difference is the degree of concentration. We have 25 to 30 innovative businesses focusing on areas like AI, machine learning, renewable energy, domestic consumption, and as as opposed to 90,100,120 investments. Are certainly leveraging our network and are trying to avoid structural problems, and we're trying... We're certainly not investing in companies where minority shareholders, sort of minority shareholder positions, are vulnerable and are disregarded by controlling shareholders. Seven years in the running, we've returned about close to 60% since inception.

12:08 The strategy AUM is... Has been quite stable over time. Of course, we'd like to grow, and we see that opportunity to come through in the in the years to come as appetite for EM is improving. We've done well against various indices. We'd love to add the the quality index here as well in in in the future. But against the mid cap benchmark and the EM index, we've delivered significant outperformance despite the fact that we've seen such a volatile environment. And that is also evident by this chart here, which shows the... On the one hand, the the the the strategy performance here, the the blue blue line, and then the VIX index.

12:59 Obviously, we've seen quite unusual macro events, like, the, of course, pandemic, the Russian invasion in Ukraine, and various other, very negative geopolitical instances, which had its impact on sort of the risk on risk of trade. In terms of the universe, what we are looking at here is, of course, a very broad diversified universe of opportunities in emerging markets, we are focusing on. There is a clear preference for Asia. We're focusing a lot on markets like India, Korea, Taiwan, more recently also Vietnam.

13:46 We've done quite well in markets like Kenya and Turkey as well and continue to have close to 10% investments in Brazil. Again, a market that offers plenty of opportunities. And also here, a very differentiated exposure. We we don't have the typical Brazilian banks, but we... The largest exposure is a software business in Brazil, which is... Which continues to impress us. In terms of the philosophy, it's really all about quality, which partially explains a relatively weak year this year where sort of the companies which are on the opposite side of the quality spectrum have done the best. So we definitely will not compromise this, and we stick to our guns instead of jumping into sort of quasi loss making tech names where you buy a lot of hope. We buy very robust business models with deep modes.

14:49 Durability of earnings is very important to us. The people behind the businesses are very important to us, And, we continue to apply our differentiated analytical approach focusing on really a deep investigative due diligence process for for every company, before we, consider an investment. In terms of the biggest opportunity and and where we see it within the broader universe, the mid cap stocks overall, companies which are less covered by analysts, companies which are less owned by larger funds, by ETFs, and the likes, continue to be highly interesting.

15:34 They are certainly far away from a territory of being overbought. In contrary, we're seeing that there are plenty of opportunities here at very reasonable evaluations, are not yet discovered. And there are many of them available, a lot more than in the past. And, of course, they provide a very significant growth potential with improving EPS growth going forward. And they are really driven by entrepreneurs and founding families. They are very flexible. As I said, what makes them attractive in itself is that they're not so well understood, and there's there's not sort of everyone invested already in these names. So so that's something we focus on, and we u... We utilize our on the ground research or network to discover these type of of companies.

16:29 And the typical company in the portfolio would be characterized by by by strong fundamentals and good financial performance over the last years. They operate at industries which are growing, companies have deep moats plus an opportunity to improve governance, which doesn't mean we invest in poorly governed companies, but there is... There's always, you know, areas you can improve and areas you can start a dialogue with with these companies so that they can improve their overall governance profile. One example that we like to talk about is one of our top holdings, which is E Ink. This is very attractive business based in Taiwan, but it's really a global business.

17:25 It's an 88% weight in the portfolio by now already 9,000,000,000 market cap company, which is still relatively small even in the emerging market context. This company started its journey by registering registering patents and developing know how and really, leadership in electronic paper technology, which was first adopted by the Amazon Kindle. That's what is mostly known for. So a very energy efficient display technology, which has a lot of advantages. One, certainly being it's it's very energy efficient. It's very... It's a lot better for your eyesight. It's...

18:12 It doesn't have it it doesn't emit anything. It's pass... It's a passive display technology. And that technology over the last couple of years, especially with inflation on the rise globally, was increasingly used by also retail networks, the likes of Walmart, which have introduced electronic shelf labels. These electronic shelf labels are ultimately price tags, which can be centrally controlled. And they have recently moved up and and moved up their technology and their their... The product itself by also moving into multicolor displays. This is increasingly... The adoption rate is very high around the world, not just in The US, but also in Asia, Europe.

19:01 So you see increase in here in terms of technology development. The business is growing really rapidly. They are backed by over 7,000 patents, and the the the addressable market of the business is actually growing rapidly as you see on the on the bottom right chart. Valuations are very reasonable. We are paying a a a multiple right now, which certainly does not acknowledge the growth potential. And, again, management is is one of the best managements you can find in in Asia, and it it really is a global business based out of Taiwan.

19:50 This brings me to the next slide, which is the top 10 holdings. There are a couple of s... Couple of factors which these companies have in common. One is most of them are run by entrepreneurs. Most of them are run by very talented, very respected... Actually, all of them by very respected management teams. They're all, by and large, still relatively small with one exception here being trip.com, which is a larger business in in China, in fact. But you can see here there's a clear handwriting between these businesses. A classy is is a... An export champion out of Korea exporting all over the world medical devices, for the dermatology segment.

20:42 They, are very competitive. They're very strong also in their domestic market in Korea, but increasingly gaining market share around the world. Turning to India, we have exposure to the wealth management industry with the number one wealth management business and the leading wealth management business in India with an increasing affluent audience across India growing really rapidly and taking away market share from banks as an independent wealth management service provider, all the way to an e memory further down in Taiwan, which is one of the world's leading encryption design business offering encryption technology embedded nonvolatile memory for businesses around the world.

21:34 And interestingly, a new addition to the portfolio, the company we've added a couple of months ago, is Cartrade, which is the India India's largest online classified in the automotive industry. They also control OLX, which is a multi vertical classified platform in India. Again, characterized

22:00 by a very strong management team. Still very small considering the size of the market. It's still less than 1,500,000,000 market cap. And we think that business like this in a market like this can will continue to do really well. They never made losses. They are... They're they're very reasonable in terms of managing their growth. They've never embarked on any reckless m and a transaction. They always kept their financials very conservatively. So, again, a very impressive business. And then lastly, Park Systems here, worth mentioning in Korea, which is the world's sort of leading developer of atomic force microscopy, offering inspection services for laboratories, but also offering the surface inspection technology to the semiconductor industry.

22:59 Turning to the next slide. This relates largely to this year. As you can see, the EM quality versus EM value index performance this year, one of the first periods where the MSCI emerging market quality index has actually underperformed, and there's been a rally towards towards value. So this is why this year has been challenging for us. Some of the banks have done well. Conglomerates, industrial businesses, defense businesses have done really well, but we see no reason why the quality index shouldn't catch up very quickly. The outlook for 2026 is actually very promising.

23:45 Turning to the next slide. This gives us another insight here into some of the drivers, which will be the source of strong recovery into 2016 also. So the the runway of very strong earnings, which are being reported across the portfolio companies, continues to impress us. Whether it's in Brazil where our... Where has actually come out with very strong numbers or in Totos, which beat estimates significantly again or in in in India where Cartrade, the company I mentioned just earlier, revenue grew by 22% year on year.

24:32 Profit after tax up 106% year on year, and they're actually upgrading their guidance for '26 as well. So that's all very positive. We can see this here also on the on the next slide, which talks about the ink a speed or a KEI, which just came out with numbers actually yesterday. This is the leading cable and wire... Wires company in India, which continues to grow at a very fast pace. So all of this is not reflected by the valuations. Many of these companies are still, out there to be discovered by by larger funds as well, and we see there's significant upside potential.

25:21 Turning to the next slide, and this talks a little bit about how we how we go about finding ideas. And the local research continues to be absolutely essential. We're spending quite a bit of time across Southeast Asia, spending a lot of time in India. The team is very busy traveling in these countries and constantly connecting with entrepreneurs, connecting with our contacts in these countries, and that allows us to to find opportunities. Last... Lastly, a point I'd like like to touch on is engagement. From the beginning, we said that we will continue to not just passively invest, but act as a constructive investor that engages with portfolio companies with the aim to improve governance and and facilitate and help management teams to make the right decisions.

26:21 And on all of these in all of these areas, especially on governance, we've made pretty significant progress, and we are seeing that companies are spending more time on this and companies are realizing the importance of good corporate governance. And that, in many cases, starts with the composition of the boards, with appointing the right people on the boards, not just cousins and friends, but independent professionals. And, again, we are seeing that, portfolio companies have done... Sort of have really moved, very quickly in the last couple of years into this direction. It's no longer fair to say that governance overall is so much poorer in emerging markets. So the areas we've been focusing and where we made most of the progress and where we where we had sort of the the... Where we spent the most time on is on governance, half of half of sort of our initiatives related to to this area, but also environmental areas, cultural aspects. So you can see here on the right the kinds of things we we are seeing, whether whether it's FPT, which which has sort of led to... Which has constantly embarked on an improving governance profile or a car trade, which appointed a new gentleman to the... As an independent director.

27:49 So a lot of these a lot of these steps are very pleasant, and they're... It's good to observe that they're moving into this direction. And that is also leading to a larger interest by international shareholders, global investors to to look at these these businesses. When we look at... When we talk... When we turn to the the outlook, I think a couple of points I'd like to make towards the end of the presentation here. One is valuations, very clear. Emerging markets continue to offer a very attractive overall environment when when we look at the fundamental valuations, whether it's PEs or price to book values or EV EBITDAs compared to the S and P 500.

28:36 So by no means, we are forced to pay a very high price for these dynamic businesses. Of course, it's not the same for everything. If you actually look at, especially, China tech right now, there's not too much of a discount visible. But broadly speaking, in many other areas, many other sectors, are seeing still discounts of... So very significant discounts. As I said at the beginning, the weaker dollar is welcome and is something which should have an positive impact on emerging markets. In general, valuations of currencies themselves continue to be very reasonable.

29:24 Many of them are actually undervalued when you look at the real effective exchange rate. In terms of China, I touched on this briefly at the beginning. We continue to look at the data, and we continue to analyze fundamentals as opposed to jumping into a deep seek idea. And it continues to be rather concerning that the real estate property market in China continues to weigh heavily on consumer sentiment. Consumer confidence in China has actually never recovered since the pandemic. It's currently even deteriorating. China's manufacturing capacity utilization, continues to be of a pretty significant concern.

30:15 They build up too much capacity in everything. At the same time, you have an aging population and more and more competition from Southeast Asia, plus, I would say, a very unstable, geopolitical environment, and I would expect probably more volatility to come. So that's not a very good news for Chinese exporters. So, yes, there are individual companies in some areas which are interesting. For example, the exposure we have, we have invested in the largest online travel agency in in in China, trip.com, which is sort of comparable to a booking. And Chinese have stopped spending on many things, but they continue to actually spend on travel whether whether that's outbound travel, but also within China. And that's one area which is actually doing quite well.

31:12 This is one of the areas which is most important, especially to companies in Korea and Taiwan, the hyperscaler CapEx. So we are seeing... Especially, this is gonna be one of the main drivers of the portfolio next year with our exposure through Korea and Taiwan, where Amazon and Google and the likes, the so called cloud service providers, the hyperscalers will continue to spend very, very significantly on high performance computing, on AI capabilities, and that's where companies in the portfolio are well positioned. So whether it's high performance material, whether it's IC design, whether it's semiconductor testing.

32:01 So in all of these areas, we are really well positioned, we are seeing that next year should be a very good year for portfolio companies. In terms of why emerging markets, and I think I mentioned this, and this brings me to the end before we come to q and a. This is a repetition of what I showed earlier. Earnings growth, innovatively... Innovative leadership. These are the... Really the key drivers of rerating for q one, q two next year, but more importantly, for the next two, three years. And that's exactly how we positioned. And, again, buying businesses at a very significant discount. So we continue to be very disciplined about allocating the portfolio, And we continue to be also mindful about the macroeconomic risks in emerging markets, which are out there, especially with regards to China, and rather focus on countries and businesses which provide more transparency and more predictability.

33:13 So that brings me to the end, and let's see if there are any questions. That's great, Carlos. Thank you very much indeed for your presentation. Ladies and gentlemen, please do continue to submit your questions using the Q and A tab situated on the top right corner of your screen. Carlos, if I may just move us on onto the Q and A session, starting off with the first question, which reads as follows. You have said before about the importance of culture. Could you talk more about this and explain how you build it into your investment case? That's a... That's an extremely good question, and it's also probably the most difficult area to address. So it is actually interesting that when you have a conversation with a CEO or CFO or any member of the senior leadership of a business who are well prepared to talk about the business and their field, it's interesting to hear their response when you ask them, how would you describe the culture in your business?

34:17 And in most cases, of of... Quite often, they are very puzzled by the question and struggle struggle to respond. Not not all of them, but many. And the reason why we put this sort of at the center of many of our discussions and also of our analytical work is because we we we have learned this lesson time and again that only companies with a strong

34:46 positive culture that provides opportunities and allows opportunities independent of gender or your background to to flourish in in your company and only environments where people feel really happy to to come to work are business... Are businesses which can excel over the long term, can do well over the long term. So it's very difficult to measure it. It's very difficult to define it, but we are making we're making this this sort of... This extra effort with every business we analyze. And we sort of map out the cultural strength and weaknesses of every business. And you can measure this. You can look at glass door ratings.

35:33 You can look at staff turnover. You can... You know, that in in the age of of Internet and with so much data available, there's quite a bit you can find out. What it also does, it allows us to find certain weaknesses of companies, feedback by clients, feedback by ex employees, state... You know, any any such factors play a role and allow us to then discuss this and find out more about the circumstances in order to identify any hidden risks in these investments. So, while it's difficult to put a number behind it, it is possible to draw a picture for every company, and this puzzle sort of evolves over time.

36:22 We learn more and more about these businesses. We recently were confronted with a situation where a family owned business, where where this was a a situation in Brazil where actually the the founder, began to, have more and more sort of inter... Interfamily problems with with other family members in the business, and there was a lot of volatility. Cousins being made redundant and others who came in into the business and the constant changes. And it made us sort of become more and more skeptical about the the the cult... This... The strength of the the corporate culture. And we actually, as a result of this, this constant back and forth and the constant trouble in the family to to sell the business. It pointed to other problems in in the company.

37:15 But, yeah, it is certainly something we take very seriously. Understood. Thank you very much. Next question is, given the underperformance of Korean and Indian holdings, how are you managing country specific or sector concentration risks?

37:34 We we invest fairly independent of this. So we have... We've decided that we want to focus on a faster growing, more innovative, more robust areas and and sectors as opposed to just replic... Replicating the benchmark. Over the long term, we've done really well in India and Korea, and we've delivered very strong outperformance. Korea is a great example. Classes has been a sort of a multibagger for us. Just over this year, it did not perform as well as, you know, some of the Korean banks or maybe some of the Korean memory players or Electronics, which for the first time now is is performing or SK Hynix.

38:22 So you will have periods of underperformance, and we had that before. The most important thing is to focus on the long term prospects of these businesses. Right now, part of the reason why there has been underperformance, for example, in Korea is because the market is entirely focusing, on this memory opportunity and on, sort of short term recovery in certain names, Samsung which has underperformed for many years, and even SK Hynix, which didn't do well for a relatively long period of time. That rerating is something which, in relative terms, has caused underperformance for us. But we continue to see that a business like Classy's, which is now trading at very reasonable valuations, which is controlled, for in this case, by Bain Capital, is either gonna be subject to another takeover.

39:18 And if not, they will continue to grow as they are moving into other markets, as as they are expanding their reach, as they are winning new clients. So we think the mark... You know, this on... This this constant compounding success of these type of businesses is more important than to just jump into a short term trend of a rerating.

39:42 Thank you. Moving on to the next question on emerging markets. Emerging markets are not what they were when I started investing in them. I still seek the old style emerging markets, and that means looking in a different list of economies. Are you afraid to take that risk and drop mature markets, which you seem comfortable with? Well, being afraid, I guess, is is is is never a very good base condition to make investments. I think it's more about understanding whether you get compensated for that risk. And I... You know, for us, the main recipe has been, and the main learning over the last many decades, in my case, has been that the biggest risks where you can really lose your shirt is if you don't pay any attention to macro currencies, whether it's the Asian financial crisis, whether it's...

40:40 The list is so long. And even in the more recent past, you know, whether it was Russia or China, when you when you don't get... When you don't pay any attention on the bigger picture and just fall in love with the individual company, that's a big risk. And we've stuck... We've been sort of sticking to our guns also in the last year, where we have not jumped into Argentina, which is a roller coaster where we continue to be careful about the type of exposure we expose us to in China, which even, you know, even if China and Chinese tech names did quite well this year, there's absolutely no guarantee, and I would actually be be very skeptical about them to do well over five, ten years in this current global environment.

41:31 So that's that's very, important. So getting macro right, getting the currency right, getting the type of risk right you're getting exposed to. And then secondly, idiosyncratic risk. And in most cases that go wrong, it's, not necessary that you didn't understand the business model well, but that you under... You didn't pay enough attention to governance, and you didn't pay enough attention to the quality of the people behind the business. And that's why we're trying to align ourselves with founding families. We're looking whether, you know, they have any other investments that are more important to them or with private equity businesses, which have a significant stake in these listed businesses, which is the case in many of our holdings, whether it's in India or whether it's in Korea.

42:19 So the alignment of interest is is absolutely essential and very important to to manage those risks. Other than that, I think the opportunity in emerging markets, if you get it right, if you have the right risk management policy in place, if you don't overpay, if you don't get sucked into any short term trend, you can generate a very good sort of risk adjusted return over multiple years as we have actually done since '9... Since 2018. That's great. Thank you, Carlos. Next one here. What's the process for determining country and sector allocation? Is it primarily bottom up, top down, or a blend of both? It's a blend of both. Bottom up is very important for us in order to navigate to the right type of business.

43:15 But it will go hand in hand, as I said earlier, with macro work we conduct. Good... I'll give you two examples. We've looked at a a really interesting business in Pakistan where we like the... Like sort of the idiosyncratic opportunity, but walked away because of risks that we were not compensated for, which we associated or connected with the currency exposure and political exposure. Similarly, I mentioned Argentina, but maybe another country that's worth mentioning in that context is Turkey. Turkey is a market where you have a very vulnerable currency, where you have elevated inflation, where you have unorthodox macroeconomic policy every now and then, actually, almost always.

44:09 And so if you don't find a business which is 100% protected against depreciating Turkish lira, you better think twice. And therefore, we invested... We made one investment in Turkey, is generating almost 80% of its revenues in euros and dollars. So we we we protected ourselves by doing that. But... Yeah. So so bottom up is is absolutely important, but without losing sight of of the macro, which is, as I said, very important. Thank you. We've got two questions here. Are plans to issue more shares? And as the trust gets bigger, will it stay as concentrated or enlarged deep portfolio?

44:55 Well, I'd love to issue new shares. We've done this in the past. We'd love to grow the trust going forward. That is the that is the aim. I think, you know, we've we've done... We've shown that this differentiated strategy is is a is is is is a very valid very viable alternative to the larger trust. So, hopefully, over the next coming years, there will be opportunities as and when interest in emerging markets will return more significantly that the shares are trading at a premium, we can issue issue more shares. It's very clear. We are... Of course, we'd love this trust to be also more liquid. That is something that the board and and us, we're thinking about very, very hard.

45:42 And I think that opportunity will will come around over the coming couple of years. Thank you. And perhaps one last question here. Are you continuing to see investee company share prices rerate on the back of the changes brought about by your constructive engagement? I'd I'd love to say yes. I think it's... It it largely depends on management teams. We we can provide an... We can provide ideas. We can engage proactively. We... Which we are doing a lot. And... But, ultimately, the the the the the the real work is then done by management teams. And it's interesting how even the domestic investor base, Korea is a good example with the Korea up initiatives, but also in markets like Brazil where the domestic investor base is becoming increasingly sensitive towards governance.

46:42 They're even harsher than we are in most cases. So it's a broader trend. We participate in this. We do play a role. We are small, but I think the feedback we are getting from our investee companies is very positive. So they actually appreciate this quasi free advice they're getting. And as I said to us, it's not only that. It's also a risk management tool. That's great, Carlos. Thank you for addressing all those questions for investors today. And, of course, the company can view all questions submitted today, and we'll publish those responses on the INVESTMENT company platform. But, Carlos, before I redirect investors to provide you with their feedback, which is particularly important to the company, Could I please ask you for a few closing comments?

47:26 Well, first of all, sorry for the technical hiccup at the beginning. I hope this worked now. If you have any additional questions, please reach out to us directly. Stay tuned. Stay patient. I think next seven years in my mind, and I am a large shareholder myself, to me look a lot more promising than the last seven years. So we think that as long as we are provided with this opportunity to invest in this quite differentiated space at these valuations, at these... Also at these sort of the the trends we are seeing, the better earnings growth environment that we are just getting into, I think that provides us with a pretty attractive opportunity in the years to come. So thanks for your interest today, and I hope to meet you in person over the coming weeks and month.

48:21 Fantastic, Carlos. Thank you very much indeed for updating investors today. Could I please ask investors not to close this session as you will now be automatically redirected to provide your feedback in order that the board can better understand your views and expectations? This will only take a few moments to complete, and I'm sure will be clearly valued by the company. On behalf of the management team of MOBIUS INVESTMENT TRUST PLC, we would like to thank you for attending today's presentation, and good morning to you all.