Ingenta (LSE:ING) — Final Results

0:01 Good afternoon, and welcome to the INGENTA PLC Investor Presentation. Throughout this recorded presentation, investors will be in listen only mode. Questions are encouraged and can be submitted at any time via the Q and A tab situated on the right hand corner of your screen. Simply type in your questions and press send. The company may not be in a position to answer every question it receives during the meeting itself. However, the company will review all questions submitted today and publish responses where it is appropriate to do so. Before we begin, I'd like to submit the following poll. I'd now like to hand you over to Scott Winner, CEO. Good afternoon,

0:32 sir. Thank you. Hello, everyone. Thank you for taking the time to join us here today. We're going to do a quick introduction and then run you through our presentation and provide you information about INGENTA. So I'm Scott Winter. I'm the CEO of INGENTA since 2018. I come from a background of technology, where I was a developer, worked up through technology, went through the various roles of that discipline and then moved over to multiple management roles, worked across businesses, worked at product management, and it really fulfilled just about every role in the company. And since 2018, I've been the one really driving the transformation of INGENTA and the strategic road map. And let me ask John to introduce himself to John, if you will. Hello, everyone. My name is John Sheffield, and I head up the finance function at INGENTA.

1:24 I've been CFO since 2017, and my background's in, in software retail and formerly, audit and assurance.

1:36 Okay. So let's drive into the presentation here. So INGENTA has been around for forty five years. We provided technology solutions to information and content providers. Primarily, we've been focused on the publishing industry, but as we'll talk through later, that's been shifting for us, and we've been expanding our horizons. What we really do is we provide mission critical software to solve industry specific problems. Notably, what we do is really help customers maximize the value of their intellectual property.

2:07 And you'll hear me talk as we go through more about intellectual property and intellectual property management. But we were really started in the publishing industry, industry, and, you know, we really focus our solutions on those aspects of the industries we work in that are at the heart of what our customers do. Our we tend to call them our partners, what our partners do. And, really, you know, we do focus on what the core value and what our customers are doing to provide value to the world, and we focus on areas that help them do that. And we aim that all of our software, all of our services are embedded in those customer organizations and a critical part of everything that they do. And that's really what our focus has been. And so I talked about that. As you can see, we have very long duration customers.

2:58 You'll hear us continue to talk about the recurring revenue, the balance sheet, and our targets, and how we're progressing on that as we go into more numbers. But what you really see here is that we have a very solid base. And we've transformed the company. The base is more solid than it's ever been. And that base is what we build off of to go into faster growing verticals. So whereas we have spent most of our time in the publishing industry, we are now looking at going into faster growth verticals like music, gaming, and media, and I'll be updating you some more on the progress of that as we go.

3:37 So with that, let me have John give you some of the highlights from a financial perspective. Thanks, Scott. Alright. Before before we dive into numbers, I'd just like to give a little bit of background on INGENTA and what we do. So Scott's mentioned before, we we're a software and services business with over forty five years experience servicing the publishing industry. We've got two core divisions, so we call them our content division and our commercial division. So the content side is also to with websites and delivery of content. And the commercial side is our is our IP management suite. So really to do with rights and royalties and and management of all those issues. The business has normal software revenue streams, so we have recurring support and maintenance, often on multiyear deals, three to five years comes mid horizons.

4:29 Time based services, So this includes software implementation fees, plus wraparound services to manage customers' day to day, operational admin needs. That's been a quite a key thing for us of late. And, ultimately, what we're aiming to do is be a valued partner to our customers and allowing them to to focus on what they do best. And, you know, publishers don't wanna be involved in technology. They want to be doing what they're good at, which is the the creation. So on the on the slides down below, we've shown a few KPIs which serve to illustrate sort of two core themes of the past few years. And they're efficiency improvements, and number two is revenue growth. So we purposely followed the sequence of events in that order. So we knew we had some great products, but we didn't always deliver them optimally. And that's why we went down the the efficiency first targets and and strategy.

5:27 So we've talked extensively in the past about how we optimize the business by removing product silos, by modernizing the IT infrastructure. And I won't go over that all again, but suffice to say, the numbers down below, especially in terms of EBITDA and cash flow, show it's working. And as we'll show later, these performance gains are allowing us to drive shareholder return via dividends and share buybacks when whenever we see the the opportunity. So on to the second one, the really, the the the current drive for us is revenue growth. So after a period of of refocus and drive to build recurring revenues, 2022 saw the a return to growth for us at top line.

6:13 And as Scott will outline in in more detail later on, there are a number of sort of new avenues we're exploring for growth. But in 2022, we delivered this from the existing customer base via our products and our existing products and services.

6:29 So examples of where we did well and gained revenue. So we got additional revenue from upgrading customers along our defined upgrade paths. So a good example here is in the in the content side of the business, the websites, we've got two products, INGENTA Connect and EDIFY. So INGENTA Connect is a multitenancy platform. Great when you're small. It's it's cheap and easy to get onto. But as you grow, EDIFY is more bespoke, and we've managed to move people up those chains, which is is great. We we can keep the customers for longer. In terms of the services, our hosting and wraparound support offering has been well received. And where we're really majoring here is in in our in our hosting services for the wider IT infrastructure of our customers. So old or new technology, we can host it for them and give them processing and development support around the site. So that that's been a good growth area for us.

7:24 And, encouragingly, all all these things are making our products and services more sticky. We get more embedded, and we we stay there, and we can do more things for customers over time. So I'll hand back to Scott now. But in the coming slides, we'll talk a bit more about the the newer areas for revenue growth.

7:45 So let me dive a little bit more into so John was giving you a high level of what we do as an organization. So let me talk a little bit more about our mission critical solution so that you can get a flavor for what I mean when I say we're embedded in our businesses and to a lot of businesses that we work with, we're really the heart of those businesses, allowing them to maximize the value of their intellectual property, and we do that in a multitude of ways. And what you see on the left of this chart is we help customers. Really, we have multiple systems in place. Some of our largest customers and some of our historical customers that have been with us for decades really manage their orders, their payments, their distribution, all of it through our system. We become the hub of that system, and we integrate with hundreds of customer systems.

8:34 So what we're like I said, where we really sit is at the heart where everything flows through us to go out to everything else in their system. And that's the way they make their money is through our system. So we take all of the electronic orders. We take all of the manual orders. We take everything and it flows through our system. It helps product go out the door, and it makes sure from that perspective that all of the financials are correct. So those are really the left two, the manage orders and payment system. In the central bucket here, we do product distribution. And what I mean by that is so we don't we do not do warehousing or shipping of books. We interface with multiple systems to allow that to happen, but we also do digital distribution of product. John mentioned two of our products, INGENTA Connect and Edify. It's really products on a continuum from very small to very large where the the way customers have the world see their content is through our systems.

9:30 So they can go on, view content through our systems, and then purchase content, do do various things on the systems. But it's not just content. It is con it is not just books. It is conference proceedings. It is podcast. It is videos. It is pretty much anything they want to distribute through that site. And what we do is we do that, and we do it well enough and detailed enough to meet requirements for the scholarly market, which is research papers. So we do a lot of work with people in medical fields, scientific fields where they're doing journals or people in professional associations or very large nongovernmental organizations that sit above government. And we do a lot of work with various entities in there as well to help them get the content that they want out into the world to the world. And we have sites ranging anywhere from Qatar to, you know, The US, all of The UK and The US, and so we really distribute sites around the world.

10:31 And then over on the right hand sides is what we manage here is from the time of acquiring rights. So if you want to publish a book, you have to acquire the rights for it in some way, shape, or form. Normally, it's done through a contract where you now have a rights and a license, and then you lice you can license those materials out to others and or you can sell them directly, and then you pay royalties on them. So we really handle from that contracting all the way through to royalty payments. And particularly that piece of it as well as the product distribution piece, we have done a lot of work in the publishing space. But the one thing I'll talk about a little bit more later is how all of media is coming together ultimately.

11:16 In the past, people think of books as that paper book. They don't anymore. That's part of it. Sure. But there's also the digital book, and then there's also audiobooks, and there's voice actors, and there's music behind it, all of which ties into someone's contracting with someone for that and for the appropriate payments associated with that, from royalty payment perspective. And, the scenario that we've been doing it for forty years, we're just applying it to some new industries because as those industries have merged or started to merge, we've already been on the forefront of that because we had some of the largest publishers in the world. We've already addressed all of that. And so now it's just really applying that discipline to other areas of business such as music. And we do have music customers in The U UK. We have a music customer that's been using our software now for about a year, and they've now expanded that into another software package that we offer.

12:08 And we have recently signed up a a media customer in North America. So they actually do television programming. And so they are using our software to process license and media assets as well as royalty payments. And, really, we allow them to maximize that value throughout that. And that really like I said, we we are mission critical. We are at the heart of what they do. They can't exist without managing their orders, and they can't exist without their payments, and they can't exist without their product distribution. So everything we do, we are critical, which is where you get businesses that have stuck with us for many, many years because we do this. We do it well. We help them run their business correctly, and it makes it very difficult for them to even think about changing out their systems.

12:55 They're better off working with us than they would be trying to change and potentially disrupt their whole business. And that's why we say we're mission critical solution provider. Again, I've covered some of this in what I was saying, but we've done this for decades. We've taken very complex concepts, made it easy for our customers to deploy, manage, run their businesses with what we've done, and it's tried and true. It's solid. It's stable. We are experts in the industry. We're on the cutting edge of many things for well before when I joined the company, and we continue to be so. And we don't view ourselves as a generic solution. We're not trying to be all things to all people. We're trying to be the specific things people need. We'll bolt on to generic solutions, and we have quite often. We've integrated with a ton of different systems out there.

13:44 We've integrated with Oracle ERP, SAP, many different warehousing systems, many different other distribution systems, but we are not generic. We are specific to what they need, and we've catered our

13:58 software. We've always built our software to be configurable. And so we just take our software and configure it for the industries we're working in, and then we have a catered solution for that new industry. And like I said, we've already proven we can take it from books to music, and now we've proven we can take it to also to media. And we're continuing to expand our our footprint in both of those now. And we really do address unique business models. Some of the solution some of the problems with our competitors is they have a very limited range of flexibility. And like I said, because we've dealt with some of the largest people in the the publishing industry, we've actually have highly configurable complex systems with a multitude of roles. And so we continue to just apply them in new ways, and we can handle just about any business model we've ever come across as it relates to intellectual property management.

14:50 Then let me talk a little bit more about the markets and why we're very excited about these markets. So you can see even I always talk about book publishing, and I'll spend some time talking about music and how great those markets are. But to be honest, book publishing alone has been a great market. This number used to be lower. COVID helped revitalize this month this number in book publishing a lot. It depends on exactly how you measure it, but it's gone up. Publishing continues to be a growth market. It has been for hundreds of years. And, you know, we've been part of that for forty five, and so we've continued to supply that industry. But you can see this is where you start to see the convergence. I mean, look at the growth of digital publishing versus book publishing. And that digital publishing is a lot more like music and film and those types of things than it is like paper product going out the door.

15:40 And you can also see the gaming market has grown. Now this figure is actually hard to we tried to do the addressable market of gaming. The gaming market just continues to expand hand over fist, and we didn't wanna put such a large number in here. We tried to whittle it down to what the the aspects of it that we can address. But, you know, it's also a very high growth vertical as is music. These have continued to grow. They've grown for decades. They've had some ups and downs, particularly music when it started streaming, but it hasn't been on a growth path ever since. And so we're really focused on these growth sectors. And so we're looking at book publishing as our tried and true historical growth sector and then expanding that out into other sectors that grow significantly. And what's really nice about these markets so we've been one of the evolutions I've been doing is taking our products, which were really catered more to the highest end of the market and essentially making them fit for purpose from from the smallest customers to the largest customers. So we can address anyone of any size in these markets now, everything from a multi 10 tenancy preconfigured software as a service solution at the lowest end to a highly configured, customizable, but really with bolt ons to our solution at the highest end.

16:52 So this is where with these markets so the reason we did that was because what we recognize about these markets in particular is that there have been an ever decreasing barrier to entry in these markets. New publishers spring up daily. New music publishers, new gaming publishers, new film producers, new film companies. These things are springing up daily, and they spring up as very small indie type publishers, whether that be in any one of these industries, and then they grow. And what we wanna do is get with them when they're very small and let them grow and grow with us, and that allows us to have, an entry point to the entire market. So as they grow, we will grow with them. And there's a question I know already submitted that. I can talk a little bit more about this later, which relates to that question.

17:41 And then what happens is they are consolidated. So they get subsumed into sector behemoths, we are saying here, but there are some very large players that ultimately, if you become successful enough, will be courting these entities. What's great about that is that we get these entries into larger and larger organizations as we play in these markets. And what's also great about that is there's always a new crop. I call it the evergreen cycle. So even though these grow it is really like these entities exist some die short, but a lot of them grow, and they continue to grow. And we are part of that, and we can grow with them and have them advance. But at the same time, there's a new crop starting all the time. And so you there's never a limit to the customer base. You never saturate the whole market because the market's ever changing. And so that's where really where we come in. We work on this convergence and this consolidation, and these markets are just projected to continue to grow.

18:33 There is no no end in sight to these. And if you think about intellectual property, intellectual property management as a market, which is a bit difficult because it cuts across literally almost just hundreds of industries and hundreds of sector or verticals, it just continues to grow off the charts. Even verticals where that have come to us, that we're not focused on, but have come to us as there's been pharmaceutical interest. We've talked to multiple pharmaceutical companies. We've talked to gas and electric companies. These are working in a model where they license a formula, and they pay royalties on that formula depending on their products. And they need a way to manage it. And they've come to us to talk about it, and we're investigating those markets. But, again, we're focused on the near adjacent growth verticals because if we enter those markets, we wanna do it well. And we these are the markets that are most like what we do, and we're trying to grow first in those.

19:26 And I do say first. Ultimately, we will be growing beyond these markets as well. So with that, let me turn it back to John to talk a little bit more of the specifics of what we're doing with the company and and the internals as before we dive into some financials later. John, do you wanna do that? Yeah. Thanks, Scott. Yeah. So development targets. There's there are recurrence of themes here that we talked about on the on the highlights pages from the three year three year metrics. And they're the the general concepts or efficiency gains and revenue growth. Efficiency improvements, you know, we're substantially complete along

20:06 that path now, but further opportunities still exist for us to to improve there. So we can do more to leverage cloud services. AWS is a is a huge opportunity for us, and we're gonna look to expand that out. And ramping up offshore is another big thing for us. You know? As we look to break into new territories, we'll need to to improve that that offshore capability, and we're looking to do it as we speak.

20:31 Improvements for the the the sales growth side of it. You know? Earlier on, we talked about what we've done with the existing base, but the newer areas are are slightly different depending on the product set. In content business of the website area, we've had success outside of our normal normal market. So nongovernmental organizations and trade associations are outside of our norm, but we've done well in there. And that's a it's a huge market to tap. You know? There there's lots of opportunities, and we need to to maximize on that.

21:04 And we've got reference for clients, household names in the NGO space that we can use to to really get our foot in the door and and get some more onboard. Also within the content side of the business, we're looking to add some com complementary services. So data analytics is a is a huge thing that people aren't probably making the most of and security concerns now in terms of the website and and the data. So those are all targets for us to to try to sell more services in that area. In the commercial sphere, probably the one of the key things that happened for us there was building up our base level SaaS offering. So a bit like INGENTA Connector, it's the it's the entry point into the the rights and royalties management. And as Scott mentioned earlier, this has helped us get our foot into the doorway with music customers and also a media company.

21:57 So that's great. You know, we we can get in there, and then we know that we've got the the more developed product set that they can move up and develop with us. And Scott mentioned that these customers are always merging and combining that lots of opportunities can can come to us when we get in. The other key thing that we're doing is is trying to move into more of a a revenue share model. So I think some customers are put off by a you know, having having a set fee. But if you if you can blend it into a revenue share and a small percentage, that's great, and it's something they're used to in that kind of in that kind of industry. So another thing that we're looking to roll out to to give us some more growth. So what's the so how are we gonna do that? I I suppose the the key things that we're looking at to try to make that sales growth happen is is, first of all, hiring.

22:47 We're looking to get and we have got already some specialist sales staff on board within the music media arena. So they'll have contacts. They'll be able to just get us in and start talking to the right people and and show them our products and and hopefully get them in there. We're also doing a lot of work expanding our marketing reach to new and existing verticals. So getting the collateral together. We've got referenceable clients now, getting that out there. And that's a there's a huge drive there to try and lift up our presence in in those new markets. And another thing that we're we're doing and we've always done to a certain extent is is just targeting the competitors. We we remain close with a lot of household names. We know what's going on. We know when things changing and customers maybe are not happy. We're there to to, you know, to to talk to them, find out what their pain points are and whether we can help them. And that's that's another area that's key for us to to keep continue growing.

23:45 So skip now just to give a bit more financial flavor to to some of those concepts we've been talking about. And the first one up is is really our revenue analysis. And I think the key takeaways here I I'd wanna flag up is is really the the focus that we've got on commercial and content. You can see it's it's our it's our core of our business, and it's all underpinned by very strong recurring revenues. We're looking to to get your your normal hosting and maintenance recurring revenues, but all our services tend to be recurring. They they need them. As soon as they start off with them, they need them, and they they recur. Also, another area of interest is the is the revenue by region, and it it shows really the the underexposure that we've got in the in The US market. Just purely comparing it to The UK one, it's it's tiny. And we're looking to to tap into that, our sales staff. We're looking to get them in The US to really start to, you know, talk talk the language of the of the local market and and get us moving in that area.

24:49 I'll skip on. So the income statement, it's really giving more detail here on the efficiency improvements and some of the knock on effects that happened. So, know, interestingly, now that we're we're profitable, it's looking good going forward. It's starting to place a monetary value on our on our 20,000,000 plus of tax losses that we've created over the years. And you can see at the bottom there, there's some some tax credits as as that asset starts to build up on balance sheet. The final thing to to mention is we we charge all of our research and development goes through the income statement. There's there's nothing hidden away in the balance sheet. So on the balance sheet, the things we like to flag up here so that there's no debt. As I said before, there's no capitalized r and d.

25:39 And then at the top, you can see the deferred tax assets. So that that's a very sort of prudent value of what we think the the tax losses will be worth to us over the over the next five years. Then the another thing is the positive distributable reserves in the in the parent company, and that's underpinning our dividend strategy and share buybacks that we've been doing.

26:05 And the final slide on the financials is the cash flow. So you can see here good operating cash flow. You know, we we've got really long established relationships. We don't have histories of bad debts. People pay. They need our services. So so it all flows through well. You can then see some of the structural changes that we we put in place. So we're moving away from a a CapEx model now, and you can see it's it's quite light capital expenditure. There's also associated reductions in the the leasing costs of business. So you can see those ticking down over time, and we look to repay most of them in '23. Yeah. And and all this this cash generation is is allowing shareholder return. And then the bottom two lines, you can see we we have a progressive dividend policy over the years.

26:55 We've also been active in the in the share buyback, most notably last year where we did a a 2,200,000 tender offer that we've completed. And that is the end of the the final section. John, Scott, thank you very much for your presentation this afternoon. And if I may just bring back up your cameras. Ladies and gentlemen, please do continue to submit your questions just by using the q and a tab situated on the top right hand corner of your screen. Just while the company take a few moments to review those questions submitted today, I'd like to remind you that a recording of this presentation along with a copy of the slides and the published Q and A can be accessed via your investor dashboard. As you can see, we have received a number of questions throughout today's presentation, and thank you to all investors for submitting their questions. Could I please ask you to read out the questions and give responses where it is appropriate to do so, and I'll pick up from you at the end.

27:46 Sure. So let me coordinate the questions here, John, and I'll have you chime in when appropriate. So these are some of the presubmitted questions. The accounts state that significant savings will be made in 2023 for lease costs. Can you please give me some financial numbers for these savings? As it relates to numbers, I feel more comfortable if you give that, John. Yes. I think on the on the the cash flow statement, I think I've just flicked up again. You you can see that there the the leasing costs are ticking down from point six to point five to point three. I can't read it on the screen. And we expect all of those leases to be paid off in '23.

28:26 Okay. So the next question is about spending on marketing, about 700 k spent every year on marketing, and why is the amount so high when the producer isn't not making returns to the company, not investing its money well is essentially what the question is here. So let me just talk about that. So that 700 k really represents not just marketing. It's marketing, the presales efforts, as well as the work we do to really embrace our customers and upsell customers.

28:59 And so not only has it not produced no return, it's produced significant return. As you can see, we've been able to shift the company from stable to growth as a result of the efforts that we've been doing in marketing and sales. And I'll say the other thing that's really critical here is, we are breaking into new verticals. That takes time and energy and investment. One of the things that we have always been committed to is returning that value to shareholders and is, at least under my tenure. But what you see throughout this is we are committed to our good dividends. We're committed to growing those dividends. And what we are also committed to is providing a a brighter future for all of our investors, and we really do have to invest to get into these verticals. And it's worth being. So we're actually very happy about investment is working. We're starting down a much larger, path, if you will, where we have a lot more opportunities. We have a triple our size addressable market. You know what I mean?

29:55 Like, we had just the addressable market was publishing, but now it's not. It's publishing. It's music. It's gaming. Our name has to be out there. People need to know we exist. And so we really tripled our addressable market. So that provides a brighter future for all of us. The next question is around questions that were submitted to us and to Sendkast. They're we're not sure what happened here. We didn't get the questions. So we are going to have our hosts here today reach out to the person that submitted that question and try to find out more about how they submitted them. As far as we our approach is we tend to be an open book, and we tend to answer all questions. And I'll try to do so as well on this call as long as time permits and get back to you with any answers that we can.

30:42 The next one is around connection of sale of digital content from a content owner by a customer person. It talks about other companies that that get commissions on sales. Is there any possibility that we could do that and get a percentage of sales? We actually have models that are in place for that. We have for about probably fifteen years where some of our customers, particularly our publishers, when we distribute their products, we take a commission from some of those sales. Not all of those sales, not all of our customers have embraced that philosophy. Some have, some haven't. It's not split out in our numbers because it's part of what we do. I don't know that there's a particularly easy way to do it because it really is a contract by contract basis on how we invoice them, But it's something that we put in place. Our new models, we always do an option around shared in the revenues. And we expect that to be a continuing model for us, particularly if for smaller customers in new markets where they don't have to do a lot of upfront investment if we get a share of the revenues.

31:41 And, there's been some some real, excitement around that as a possibility. That's not how our current customers are structured in those new markets, but it is certainly a possibility and certainly something we push for going forward. The next question is, can you talk about competition you face? And if at all, m and a, mergers, and acquisitions form part of the strategy moving forward? We do face competition. There there's competition, depending on which particular product lines you were talking about. We could talk about some of the competition. So for you get in the order side, it's like the clopotex of the world, k and k's of the world, who are our competition, who attempt to do what we do. They're very different than us, but they attempt to cover sort of the same spaces that we cover there.

32:27 There's they we've taken approach where we're more modular and we're more bolt on to other things that they do as long as we're a very important part of the ecosystem. And their approaches are more end to end. And if you buy their whole suite, you can run end to end. So I think that's kind of sets apart there. They are real competitors, though. And we have competition in the distribution area where those that competition has is companies like Silverchair, Highwire. There's a few others in that space, Adapon. Most of our competitors have now have new ownership structures. They're parts of larger organizations, whereas we remain an independent company in that space. And they are focused more on this the purely scholarly side of things, and we're focused more on scholarly plus the NGOs. As we've said, that that forms a significant part of our customer base now as well as professional associations.

33:19 So it's slightly different, but, yes, there are competitors in that space as well. In the IP space, there are competitors. They're different. They're smaller. Not many have been around as long as us, so their solutions are different. And they're not as comprehensive as what we do in terms of handling very complex organizations. And like I said, the sheer volume of rules that we can handle is impressive. And so that's sort of the competition. Acquisition. Acquisition is definitely a strategy moving forward. We hesitate to project exactly what acquisition is gonna do from us in terms of numbers as people can imagine that something that happens or doesn't happen is not quite as predictable as we'd like. We review acquisition opportunities regularly. It is in every board meeting. We talk about the possibility of acquisition.

34:08 The next question is how confident are you feeling about the potential for the business moving forward given the headwinds in the market? We're actually feeling very confident about the potential for the business. Let me just go back a bit before I I look forward. So when I took over in 2018, we were a business that was slightly declining year over year. And so the first job was to stop that decline. The second job was to reorganize the business in a way to position it for growth. And so we had, if you look back at our financials, you'll see it where we did a lot of reorganization in my time where we were not only holding our own then, stopping the decline, but really making more profit and making us a more profitable, well organized, lean machine that can run the types of businesses that we run-in the way it should run. And then we spent some time over the past year really positioning for growth.

34:56 So we started some of our product solutions, but those products are now there. They're up. They're running. People are seeing them, and so we're really positioned for growth. So we sort of stopped the shift from going in the bad direction, then we reorganized as we were trying to get the ship going in the in a positive direction. And as you can see from our numbers, we've actually done it. We're now headed in the right direction. And now what I keep saying is some of why I was talking about marketing and the investment in marketing is we now need to provide fuel to the growth engine for this company and get this company headed as quickly as possible into as many areas it can as it can go. And with our structure and with our fixed and variable staffing models, we're positioned to do it. We know how to do it. We know how to bring on vendors. We've straightened out project management for implementations. Our timelines have come down.

35:42 Our delivery has gone up, and so we're continuing down that market. And we are signing up new customers, and it's good that we're doing that and we continue to. So here's some here's, quite a few questions, and better ones, I'll take them one by one. Can you segment your customers' revenues into academic and entertaining entertainment publishing. I know we have significant presence in academic. We don't really segment it that way because what we find is, particularly with our largest customers, is they're a blend. So our largest customers tend to do a bit of everything, and entertainment publishing is an interesting field because, I like I like actually the way this is phrased. Entertainment publishing could cover all the books that are done for entertainment as well as the audiobooks that are entertainment up through, media and gaming and film and stuff. So we could actually start segment by those verticals that I've talked about, but to actually break down the publishing itself would be a bit difficult for us.

36:45 Can you estimate your market share? We've tried to estimate our market share. I I will say this. What we have is plenty of headroom for growth in even our traditional publishing markets in The UK and The US. Our primary geographic targets right now are the English speaking world. It's not that we can't address the larger world, and we do. As I've said, we've had customers in Qatar and Japan and few other areas around the globe. It's just we have plenty of room to grow in our current market shares, and we know for sure we are experts in those geographies. And so, I mean, you know, we've had multiple deals, multiple customers, still do in Europe and other areas of the world as well. But it's really our target is really things we can grow that keeps it easy for us to expand, plenty of headroom, to grow in our current market as well as to grow in new markets.

37:38 And so that's really our focus right now. It's just the nearest ripest fruit for us to pick. Who do you compete with? Already covered competition a bit. How much would you need to invest in kind of other cost to address new growing markets like gaming or music or pharma? So we are, starting to invest. I mean, you can see I've talked about that. We've been investing for a little while now into those new markets. And John talked about some of the positions that we've added now. We are adding specialists, particularly in the music and media markets now. In fact, they started this week. One of specialists started this week. We've hired a couple of marketing gurus as well to get us out there better to help increase our presence. We do primarily digital marketing now where we are doing a lot through the ads like Google Ads, those types of ads where we're just pushing our name out every which way we can, and we really ramped up our email campaigns, as well to try and reach everyone who might need our services.

38:36 And we'll continue to push that. I will just note this also notes investment in pharma. We're just exploring the pharma market. We're not actually investing in it now. But like I said, just putting our name out there, word gets around, and we've had pharma come to us. We haven't targeted them. We haven't tried to reach them, but they have reached us. We've been named in a couple consultant reports as one of the the best intellectual property management software solutions, and so I think that's what's caused an inbound, if you will, from other industries like pharma, gas, and electric. And it's great for us to have that inbound, but right now it's exploratory now. So we've done some demos. We've talked to them. We wanna know about the market, but we're not gonna invest heavily in pursuing the market until we know that we can do it well.

39:22 Why are the recurring revenues fluctuating between half years, e g in 2022, 4,700,000 and 4.3 in h '2? Yeah. 4.7 in h one and four point three in h two. John, do you wanna take that one? You're better. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. So we've we've been trying to to to not concentrate so much on the noncore elements and some of our nonsoftware recurring revenue. So that that's been the, basically, a change in in classification. Okay. So that was really the questions that I see. Again, we'll have, investment company reach out to the person who tried to raise questions and for whatever reason they didn't make it through to us to try to address that as well.

40:07 If there are no other questions right now, I guess I'll wrap up. What else? Oops. Go ahead. Scott, John, thank you. And I think you've addressed all those questions you can from investors today. And of course, the company will review all questions submitted today, and we will publish those responses on the Investor Meet company platform. Before redirecting investors to provide you with their feedback, which I know is particularly important to yourself and the company, Scott, could I please just ask you for a few closing comments? Yeah. So if I can leave you with a a couple of thoughts. What I what I love about INGENTA is both its history and its opportunity. We've existed for a long time. I always think of us particularly as an as an investor myself who has some of our own shares. You know, we've existed. You're safe pair of hands. You're getting return for value.

40:55 That's our current business. And then you have this huge opportunity to grow with us as a business as we get the growth engine fully revitalized and pursue mergers and acquisitions. You know, we have a very bright future ahead of us, and we're continuing to pursue it heavily now. I know in the past, there have been some various different views of us. But in reality, starting five years ago, we shifted to a focus on a strategy that takes us from where we were to to where we can get to and what we can really grow and be, and that's really what we're pursuing heavily now. Yes. We had some repair work, to get there, but you can see even as part of that, we started returning more value. We recognize in value that the investors are the ones who who help us as a company as well, and so we like to return value to people who put their money with us. But we also say we're safe by our hands. We've existed for a long time. We'll exist for a long time going forward. And we're looking to ever expand, and we have the opportunity.

41:56 And now we've proven we can do it. So it's a matter of just signing up the deals and locking it down. So if that's what I would leave people with mostly that, you know, we've done well. We've proven that we can exist for a long time. We weathered COVID like it didn't exist almost, and we're continuing to expand out as a company now. And that's why I think what I would like people to think about INGENTA. So thank you everyone for coming today. And if if you do have questions, I'm sure where you can provide other vehicles for people to ask questions after that. Scott, John, thank you for updating investors today. Could I please ask investors not to close this session as you'll now be automatically redirected to provide your feedback in order that the management team can better understand your views and expectations.

42:42 This will only take a few moments to complete, and I'm sure will be greatly valued by the company. Behalf of the management team of INGENTA PLC, we'd like to thank you for attending today's presentation. Good afternoon. Thank you, everyone.