EMV Capital (LSE:EMVC) — Interim Results for the six months ended 30 June 2025

0:00 Good morning, and welcome to the EMV CAPITAL PLC investor presentation. Throughout this recorded presentation, investors will be in listen only mode. Questions are encouraged and could be submitted at any time via the q and a tab situated on the right hand corner of your screen. Simply type in your questions and press send. The company may not be in a position to answer every question it receives during the meeting itself. However, the company can review all questions submitted today and publish responses where it's appropriate to do so. Before we begin, I'd like to submit the following poll. I'd now like to hand you over to Ilian Iliyev, CEO. Good morning, sir. Thank you, and good morning to you all. Thank you very much for joining us, and welcome to the presentation for EMV CAPITAL's interim results. I'm Ilyev, the CEO of EMV CAPITAL, and I'm joined here by Ed Hooper, who is executive director and general counsel for EMV CAPITAL.

0:51 For those of you that haven't haven't seen us before, I'll just go through a quick recap of our investment model, and then I'll get into the results of the business and a deep dive into some of our portfolio companies. So just as a reminder, EMV CAPITAL has at EMV CAPITAL, we have the vision to be a leading venture capital operator in the deep tech and life sciences space. And recently, we had a little anniversary starting with a five. It's been five years since the Net Scientific as the company used to be called acquired EMV CAPITAL in mid two thousand and twenty, which is when the new strategy that we have been pursuing was adopted. We've had quite a growth and quite a journey. We started with 12,000,000 AUM and eight companies in mid twenty twenty, And we are now at over 100,000,000 in assets under management, of which 38,000,000 are direct on the balance sheet, 66,000,000 are third party funding, and 70 portfolio companies.

1:55 This is not the end for us. So we're quite ambitious. We are building a sustainable platform, and our next milestone is 200,000,000 and beyond. And we're also FCA authorized, which enables us to both do corporate finance type of work and fund management across our practice. Now in terms of our model, and it's something that some of you will remember, we implemented when the combination happened back in 2020 was to recognize the volatility of the venture capital world and to focus on generating our own independent fee income. Our model is our focus is to get to breakeven. We're not there yet, but we've made significant progress. And our fee income sources include recurring fund management fees as of last year, corporate finance fundraising fees, value creation services fees that we charge to select portfolio companies, in particular, those in our venture build practice, and, of course, capital realizations through exits and carried interest where we are exiting companies that are backed by third party investment.

3:04 Now in terms of our operating model, we have essentially two playbooks. One is we built capital growth for a subset of companies where we take a deep direct stake as well as third party funding and where we employ what we call venture building. And this is where we work heavily with these companies both in terms of helping them solve their corporate finance needs, helping them access investment for growth. But we're also very proactive in the management of those companies, working with the company boards, their coinvestors, and management driving change, driving growth in those businesses, and often change can be quite drastic alongside deploying what we call our value creation services among the disciplinary team that can help the companies in a range of areas ranging from finance, IP, and other areas.

3:56 And, ultimately, we're driving those companies towards exit partial for to realize capital gains for PLC and carried interest from third party investments. Another playbook we have is growing our fund management practice, and the two, of course, can work together. And this is where we're looking at growing funds under management from investors that can be done on a syndicated basis as well as through our growing fund structure. And the fund structure, we are the manager of MARTHET CAPITAL, a Cambridge focused early stage fund, as well as a growing EIS, Evergreen Fund working with IFAs and wealth managers. And over time, we're looking to grow the number of funds that we're managing both through organic and inorganic growth. To talk a bit about our portfolio, again, you have seen many of these companies in the past, and I'll do a deep dive later on on the ones that we are more deeply involved. But I'll just say here that it's a diverse portfolio across deep tech, life sciences, and sustainability companies at different stages of their development.

5:01 One is Nasdaq listed. Another one is in series c. India, others are at an earlier stage of their development. And post post period, we've had one addition, a company called Destiny Pharma AMR, which was formed from the acquisition of the assets of Destiny Pharma, a name formerly AIM company, which I'll talk about a little bit later. Capital itself has a also a rich portfolio of smaller stakes than what we typically have, But this is where we have actually integrated MATLAB CAPITAL fully inside EMV CAPITAL's structure both on a team level and on operational basis. But also from an investment perspective, we are now starting to co invest from our EIS investment practice. So recently, we announced an investment in the example, roughly a quarter of million from EMV CAPITAL's EIS practice as well as exits. We've had the exit from the market portfolio locking in a 2.3 times return on a modest sub 1,000,000 exit, again, showing the model starting to work both in terms of exits, co investment opportunities, and the outflow for the rest of the business.

6:08 This was if you recall, we announced this transaction last year, the taking over of Capital's fund management, and we're very excited to see it now become a full part of our of our business. Switching to financial highlights. So group revenue decreased slightly to 1,100,000 for versus 1,200,000 in the previous half. But as I go through this, I want to emphasize we because of the way we account, we we account group revenue, but that also includes certain subsea portfolio subsidiaries, which are actually funded by third parties. Instead of that, we talk about the core operational revenues, core loss, core costs, which is EMV CAPITAL itself, you know, the operation of our corporate finance side, value creation services, and so on. So in terms of at the core level, EMV CAPITAL's revenues have remained the same as last year, and they have covered 79% of our core costs.

7:02 It's not quite breakeven, but it's we're getting quite close to that very important milestone. The loss of the core level for the half year has decreased to 300,000 from point six for the first half of last year, again, showing the the trend. Our group loss has also decreased to 1,500,000 reflecting cost controls at proxies level and lower r and d costs at. Now turning to assets under management, which is a a core metric for our business. So our total AUM, direct and indirect, has reached a 105,000,000, and we ended last year at 98.5. Of that, 38,600,000 is fair value of direct holdings owned by PLC.

7:47 66,000,000 is third party managed third party holdings. In the first half of the year, we have syndicated roughly 5,000,000 of investments, slightly less than in the first half of last year. Actually, it's been a very active half in terms of the number of transactions. However, in the context of a difficult fundraising environment, we've helped companies with what often were smaller fundraisers helping them get to the next stage of of their developments. Our total assets have increased slightly to 19,700,000, but net assets have decreased a little bit to 13,600,000, and adjusted net assets are at 29,300,000. I've got a slide later on to try to link the net asset metrics to our share share price, which is important from your perspective. We've also made clever use or we think clever of of our paper. We've made roughly £400,000 worth of investments through the use of EMV CAPITAL shares.

8:44 This was used primarily to underpin a very important investment round in in in Qbot, and I'll talk about the how that company has evolved. And we've ended the half of the year with £500,000 of cash and a further £1,000,000 of realizable quoted securities. On the cash side, I want to emphasize we are an operating company. We generate cash through ongoing activities. We manage a debt to book. So, you know, it's it's it's a live picture continuously. In terms of the fair value comp composition, again, if you looked at this a few years back, it was concentrated in a few positions. Now as our fair value has grown, it has also diversified. What that means is, first of all, from a risk perspective, we have a broader spread of risk across our portfolio.

9:33 But from an opportunistic perspective, it also means we have more shots on goal, more opportunities to take deeper stakes, and to realize investment returns. And you can see also here on the on the right hand side of this of this graph how the assets have diversified between directly owned funds managed and syndicated investments. And we anticipate that that picture to continue as we as we grow all sides of the of this pie. Now this is a very important slide. It is around linking our current market cap, our NAV, but also finding ways in which we can better measure the true value of our business. So because of accountancy measures and how subsidiaries are being measured, the NAV of 13,000,000 actually undercounts the true asset value of the business. That's why we've developed the adjusted NAV measure, which also counts the direct fair value of our subsidiaries and a further measure of fair value. So what you can see here is that on the adjusted NAV per share and fair value per share, we'll end up at one zero six and one point thirty nine for these metrics versus the current share price of under 50 p, which suggests, in our view, a significant scope for growth to align share price with our with our underlying value. However, even these measures, we believe, do not capture the full value

11:04 of the business partly because these are inherently historical under the perspective. They do not capture the embedded goodwill within the operating businesses, which have are shown to consistently generate revenue, the future carried interest from the fund performance, and the expected growth in the underlying portfolio. This is a growing portfolio. It's not going to stay this way. These companies are growing in value and and in performance. As a result, we as management and also shareholders feel that the current market cap significantly underestimates the group's real value. What are we going to do about it? Well, what we're doing? We're going to consistently provide proof points of our business model working and look to implement what we what we promised. I'm going to talk a little bit about our venture built portfolio.

11:52 And, you know, we gave you the name, but we've been doing it for a while. Essentially, what we do here is we're targeting IP rich companies in our markets of focus, life sciences, sustainability, deep tech, companies that have had significant investment into them in the past, but they need strategic direction. It could be that they're in the middle of a pivot because the market has changed. It could be that they need to try something else. There's different cases. But in all of these situations, we are able to take deep direct stake through our the combination of our corporate finance practice, our investment capabilities, and our ability to take companies forward on growth post investment. And we take those direct stakes sometimes with a little bit of cash, but typically through in kind services.

12:39 Sometimes we deploy EMV CAPITAL PAPER as appropriate. Post investment, we support those companies through our value creation services practice to help the companies get to the next stage to become autonomous once again, and we bring third party investment to those. Doing this for the last few years means that we have created 9,300,000 of fair value from £400,000 of cash investment and 500,000 of in kind services. We believe this is really a extraordinary performance across these portfolio companies. It's half the story. Ultimately, it's about getting these companies a text, we've had some good stories here with Deep Tech Recycling, a company in the chemical recycling space where we've had a fair value increase of 2,500,000. Dename it in the lab lab quality control space, Ventev in heat pumps, Vortex in liquid biopsy, and one health in digital health monitoring.

13:33 All of those companies, we have significant double digit direct stakes in these companies, and we've seen significant direct fair value increase. And it's not static. We are able to add companies to this to our venture build program. And here, I'll spend just a little bit of time talking about the acquisition or the addition of Destiny Pharma AMR Limited post post post balance sheet, post period. So Destiny Pharma is a name that many of you are familiar with. It was an AIM listed company until last year. Very promising company in the antimicrobial resistance, antibiotic resistance space. It is a huge space, very, very important for global health care and a potential global health crisis on our hand.

14:20 Surgical site infections alone are responsible for one point six million deaths globally. In The US, we believe there is up to two million surgery patients that could benefit from this technology. But what did we do? Well, we've been we had been tracking this asset for quite some time. We took our time to understand it. And then over the summer, which seems to be a period summer and Christmas is our favorite period for deal making, we moved forward towards closing a deal. The company had previously completed the phase two b trial for nasal gel with promising returns, but ran out of steam, ran out of cash when it came to launching a phase three trial. So what we did is we set up a new company where we through which we bid for the x f 73 family of assets from the administrator.

15:08 And in a very short period, we syndicated roughly 1,300,000 of investment from our investment network to fund the acquisition and the post acquisition venture build program. From our fee generation perspective, we generated some corporate finance fees. We have a two year value creation services contract. But importantly, post closing on a fully diluted basis, we have 30% holding in this business, and we've added £500,000 of direct fair value to POC, but no, yes, no cash cost. So, again, this is the result of several years of development of our practice that has now come together. That means we are able to do these deals over and over again as a as a playbook of building capital value in our areas of focus. Now what are we going to do post post acquisition?

15:56 Well, the phase two has been completed before thus before us. We're now putting together the management team that will take the business on a on a go forward basis, and we're looking to restarting or finding the route to restarting the phase the phase three trial preparations and eventually launching a phase three trial. Now some of you will say, well, hold on. That's pretty expensive launching a phase three. How are you gonna do it on a capital efficient basis? And, again, here, want to direct you to what we have done with Deep Tech Recycling, a plastic waste recycling company, not much to do with antibiotic resistance. But there again, we've had a capital the challenge of building a capital efficient approach in what's fundamentally a capital intensive industry. And what we have done there is build JVs with partners and to set up an SPV to fund the investment in on a separate side, minimizing the dilution of the topco level. So So we have some ideas of how we can do this on a go forward basis.

16:53 It will take a while. It it it takes a while to get the FDA comfortable with preparation for a phase three trial, but we believe this new program be builds brings even more potential for outsized returns for EMV CAPITAL shareholders in the years to come. I'm going to go through some of the other portfolio companies that we have tracked with you in the over the last few years. SoftBank has continued to grow. If you recall, this is a next generation phased array satcoms antenna. Space technology, space development, space industry, telecoms from space is even more in the headlines now. When we originally backed the company a few years ago, it was not. It was science fiction. It has worked out well. But the company now is in a in a race to launch the commercial sales. We anticipate the launch of commercial sales in the first half of twenty twenty six.

17:45 They've tested their antenna successfully on customer networks in The UK and Italy, and they're integrating their technology into satellite terminals, you know, as we speak into the end of the year. We've seen growing interest from OEMs as people realize the technology SoftFront has is exactly in the right space. We believe the launch of commercial sales by Softbank will be a major value inflection point, and it will clarify routes to exit for the business. Wonder Health is a digital health monitoring company that was has been part of our venture build program for a while. We have a 14% direct stake in this business. And, again, by iterating their model on a capital efficient basis, eventually, they found the right market fit for them, which, as it happens, is with health care providers and pharmacy benefit managers in The US.

18:33 They've been accelerating their ARR. They're on track to get to a million ARR within, I would say, in early twenty six. And that again is a major value inflection point for that company, both in terms of opening up broader sources of of finance, but also the proof of the model to get them to scale up. We see this as another excellent development in our portfolio. Deep Tech Recycling that I mentioned earlier have also made progress on several pilot projects. In particular, they've received an indicative term sheet for debt financing from the Norwegian government for roughly 11,000,000. A plant cost roughly 20,000,000. That is done in a non dilutive way to deep tech recycling itself. It's done through an SPV formed with our Norwegian partners.

19:19 But in addition to that, there is another two or three additional projects under discussion, again, making sure that there is a portfolio of approaches as the company moves to the next stage. We have 17 and a half percent of this business, and we believe there is enormous value upside left as the if if the company manages to launch a commercial project. Continuing on Paraxis, which is a subsidiary of EMV CAPITAL. They develop and supply assays for pharmaceutical research to clinical trials. They could have a very good and strong 2024. Unfortunately, in early twenty five due to a quality issue with one of the suppliers, they had to pause production, and that took until September to resolve.

20:06 Production has restarted, and there is an order book that is being that is being resolved, but this has led to significant slowdown in revenues for this year. Nevertheless, the company has made progress on a go forward basis with a much stronger supply chain. But in other aspects of the business, we have now launched a COPD clinical study with Imperial College London, which if successful, we believe will multiply the market for ProAxis in terms of the usability in clinical trials. And they have also moved to the excellent Randox Laboratories outside of Belfast and looking to develop relationships with Randox, a giant in the diagnostic space as the company goes forward. GlycoTest has continued its progress with its assay development, however, the cash constraints. So there is an ongoing fundraising round for the business. It needs to close that investment to continue to make progress in its program. As you know, in The US, the fund fundraising environment for biotech is very, very tough. Nevertheless, the company is making good progress in investor discussions.

21:09 Finally, on the portfolio, I'll talk about Qbot. It's one of our long term portfolio companies, a really excellent robotics and AI platform for in the construction industry for automating retrofit. The company underwent through a very difficult transition last year where they had to restructure their model, cutting down OpEx by about 70%, drastic reduction in team size. And EMV CAPITAL played a key role in in the rescue of that business, securing rescue finance while protecting our own position in the business. That transition has been executed, and we've been able to attract a strong CEO to the business on a go forward basis, again, focused on growth in what they're really good at, which is on the floor insulation, but also driving increased profitability, increased revenues for that business.

21:59 The valuation has decreased significantly, but we believe from this lower, more lean basis, we're able to grow. Importantly, for EMV CAPITAL, we have protected and, in fact, increased our stake in the business holding close to 30% of direct and 54% advised for that for that company. If the company is able to reach breakeven, you know, the bets are off. It's a really important space in terms of applying robotics and AI in the construction services industry, which as you know, both in The US and The UK is labor constrained. So they're in the right space. They gotta get the the proof points. So I think that gives you a look see under the under the hood what we've been up to. In terms of on a go forward basis, look, we believe that even without raising a new fund, our AUM will continue to grow simply because the portfolio is growing, and we are going deeper in some of these companies.

22:51 However, we are looking at building continuing to build the fund practice both organically and inorganically. The EIS practice is also growing. One one benefit of the increasingly complex UK income tax environment is that EIS is becoming an increasingly important tool in tax planning, and we're benefiting from that. On the revenue side, we're continuing to grow to get to breakeven at core group level. I don't want to give you specific forecast, but you see the trend is really going in the right direction. Market environments, okay. It's tough, difficult. You know, we all know that. We read the doom and gloom in the headlines. You know what? From our perspective, in any market environment, there are opportunities. At the moment, in the current environment, there are such excellent opportunities such as Destiny such as Destiny Pharma that we're able to capture.

23:39 When the market environment improves, there'll be other opportunities, but we are focused on building up the exit opportunities within our portfolio. If as we expect the market continues to starts to improve, we'll be able to real start realizing exits. We are really well positioned for market recovery. We have seen that the deep tech and life sciences space specifically has not been affected as much as other sectors. And overall, it it it it looks like both government and the financial system see the space we are in as really important, and we're well positioned to grow from that. So in sum, we are well positioned to capitalize on the growing venture capital landscape and the evolving UK economy, both through capital gains potential. There's the potential upside from carried interest as we grow our fund practice, path to breakeven at EMV CAPITAL level, which would make us autonomous financially.

24:30 And we now have a proven value creation model over and over again where we can create enormous capital value with minimal upfront cash and and a diverse portfolio through which we can run our strategy. And with that, I'll stop. Ily and Ed, thank you very much for your presentation. Ladies and gentlemen, please do continue to submit your questions just by using the q and a tab situated on the right hand corner of your screen. Just while the company take a few moments to review this today, I'd like to remind you that a recording of this presentation along with a copy of the slides and the published q and a can be accessed via investor dashboard. As you can see, if we have received number of questions throughout today's presentation, please ask you to read out the questions and give responses where appropriate to do so, and I'll pick up from you at the end. Thank you. So starting from the top, there's a question around, are there any near term exit opportunities you're working towards?

25:24 And I would say that the answer is yes, but nothing nothing is for sure. Compared to a year, year and a half ago, we are even more focused on mapping out of the potential exit routes of the companies that we have. But, equally, we want to exit in the right in in the right in the right way. I've talked about the recent exit we had from, which was something that we actively targeted. It wasn't given to us. We asked for it. So we are showing that on a proactive basis, we're able to generate these opportunities. But in terms of where the large upside is going going to come from, that is going to be from most likely from trade sales, IPOs, that that sort of approach. We by being actively in the market, I would say we are in a good position to identify such opportunities and to help our companies to structure those opportunities.

26:21 But, again, you know, these sorts of things will will take time. K. There is a question on how robust are your evaluation methodologies in the current venture capital environment? Again, excellent question. You know, we follow the BVCA methodology and at EMV CAPITAL PLC level, that also goes through an audit with our auditors. So it's been stress tested significantly. I think on a risk basis, we also take provisions when we see that something we have question marks over something even if formal evaluation hasn't fallen. So we feel it's, you know, as as strong as it can be within the VC industry. Of course, there's always an element of of subjectivity in these things, but, you know, we're following the methodology quite quite consistently, and it makes no sense for us to not to do so because, you know, if we go up one quarter, next quarter goes down, you know, that doesn't help anybody. We're in this for the long run.

27:24 Ed, do you want to add something on the valuation framework as a whole? I I think probably just thanks, Elaine. Probably just reinforcing what you'd mentioned a little earlier on, which is the the BBCA guidelines are what we use for the valuation. And as you say, they're subject to annual audit. But as you mentioned, they they miss out a lot of the potential upside that I think we we see, which which is just not built into the valuation. So we we think that there's a a delta there. As examples you gave, they're they're all good ones. The it it doesn't capture goodwill of our operating businesses, the likes of EMV CAPITAL PARTNERS, etcetera. It doesn't incorporate future carried interest payments, which is one of the key reasons that we're doing all of these investments with with our various investor syndicates and funds.

28:17 And it it also doesn't capture the the moment between the last fundraising price, which could be up to a year plus in in some cases, ago, and and all the good value inflection points that the companies have reached along the way since that time. So I think there's, a lot of upside that we see as a management team in the valuations, which is just not built into the more formal metrics that we need to use as part of the BBC guidelines. Thank you, Ed. And so it was the next question. When can shareholders expect a when can shareholders expect an exit from one of your portfolio companies? And what will we do with any excess cash? Will it be returned as a dividend dividend or a buyback?

29:07 So as I flagged earlier, we are starting to see small exit from the broader portfolio, which trigger carried interest or might trigger a capital return. In terms of the larger potential exits, of course, those are longer term and take time to build out. So, you know, you know, there's nothing specific that's about to happen. But on the question of distributions, again, maybe I'll ask my colleague at to talk through because also he has a good sense of how others do it in this space. Ed? Yeah. Thanks, Celine. So, yeah, I I think you're you're you're right. We've we've seen some good examples of secondary trades both historically as we've previously reported and and more recently with Sampler for market capital. We we're expecting those secondary trades to continue in the absence of any sort of fuller form m and a exits or for that matter, IPO exits that that the markets are difficult for for finding an exit in this environment. And and we're fortunate that we consider ourselves fortunate that we don't have to rush to make a call on on exiting at at potentially the wrong time and the wrong price, of course.

30:20 And I suppose that leads us on really to then sort of, the the point that we're we're an evergreen structure, so that that gives us, the benefit of time. We we don't want to wait around deliberately, and and hold on to assets. We want to see them go and fly from the portfolio, but to do so at the right time and the right valuation. So assuming there is excess cash, that that's all for review. But clearly, if there's excess cash, the board can meet and structure the company in such ways to to be able to return the cash. We should also remember that the evergreen structure is there to provide shareholders with exposure to future investments. So when we're we're not in a sort of wind down mode where we're just looking to sell the the portfolio interest that we currently have, we're looking to expand and put into the existing portfolio for the follow on capital where it's required in order to grow those investments and the value there.

31:19 And we'll say, as we've demonstrated with the likes of Destiny Pharma and others in the venture building portfolio, looking to increase the group's exposure to new companies and new investments. So I I would anticipate a mixture of both in the next scenario. Thank you, Ed. And the next question is, do you anticipate expanding co investment opportunities with Maplet Capital beyond Zampla? So, I mean, one of the when we took over the fund management of Maplet Capital, we told the market why we did that. And, certainly, one aspect was gaining access to more fees and to more recurring revenues and to growing the AUM.

32:06 But strategically, it was really important for us to build depth in the Cambridge cluster, not only because it's the Cambridge cluster, but if you've got depth in Cambridge, that gives you access to deal flow across the country. But in addition to that, given the nature of market capital is a really broad portfolio of 50 positions of some of them, you know, probably nothing to write home about, but a number of them really exciting. It gives us access to extended due diligence over many years understanding those companies' relationships with those management teams and the co investors. And as a result, we're able to identify interesting opportunities that fit within with our investment thesis fair fairly early on. So, absolutely, we're looking to do more, and that's good both for the companies that we're backing. It's good from the method capital practice, and it's good for our ES investment practice.

33:02 I'll say one more things. Architecturally, if you will, the way we want to build our EAS investment practice, both the syndicated deals and the EAS fund is in a way that makes it attractive to the IFAs and the wealth managers as a genuinely unique genuinely unique combination of both access to the super returns from our venture build practice and the later stage derisked investment opportunities such as Zampla where there will be where investors get exposure alongside other large investors. So we think this combination is quite unique on the EIS market right now, and we have various initiatives through our EIS investment practice to capitalize on that. And a final question that I see here from from George, which companies in your portfolios are you most excited about?

33:57 And, I mean, I hope what comes true is that, you know, it's not the one or the other. It's we we're genuinely excited across the portfolio of the companies that that we have. And if I can, I suppose, call out a difference, you know, the our model is somewhat different from the classic textbook VC model, which is invest in 21 returns the fund, one pays for the carry? Our approach is different from that. You know? The companies we engage with, we believe every one of them can be successful, and we almost bring a owner approach to it. We might not own them directly, but we feel ownership of the results and help those companies get to the next stage. They might not be unicorns, but from a return to investors perspective, the returns we believe are probably higher than if you had a tiny little bit of a unicorn somewhere down the pref stock. So from that perspective, the businesses that you see us talking about, we are excited about all of them, and we are at different points of their life cycle. We're perhaps more worried about one than another because, you know, they all go through through troubles.

35:07 And we just like with Q bot, we roll up our sleeves and kept them to get out on the other side. But each and every one of them has outsized potential both as a business impact on industry and investment returns for for for EMV CAPITAL's shareholders. Ilyan, Ed, thank you for answering all those questions you can from investors. And, of course, the company can review all questions submitted today, and we'll publish those responses on the investor meet company platform. Just before redirecting investors to provide you with their feedback, which I know is particularly important to the company, Ilian, could I please just ask you for a few closing comments? Look. I mean, I'll I'll I'll say something I've said in in in previous EMCs. Yes. We're in a tough investment environment, but in a sense, so what? There are opportunities in every investment environment.

35:52 We are a specialist that has proven for multiple projects that we we know what we're doing. We can identify the special opportunities, turn them around, get them to the next level, and we can drive value. So in terms of on a go forward basis, we will not be in a a winter and a busy winter forever. We are starting to see some green shoots, and we think that our model now is stronger over the last few years in terms of being close to closer to breakeven, but also with multiple shots on goal in terms of outsized capital gains potential across not one, but many opportunities. Adding to that, the carried interest upside from our growing fund practice and to and also the future scalability of a proven value creation model.

36:39 Both myself and Ed and the rest of our team are committed to this business for many years to come. This is a platform we want to grow into a major UK and European European player, and we feel we have found the right formula. So there's a short term, medium term, and long term benefits to sticking with us. And, you know, I hope I hope you make good investment returns out of it. Ily and Ed, thank you for updating investors today. Can I please ask investors not to close the session as you'll now be automatically redirected to provide your feedback in order that the management team could better understand your views and expectations? This may take a few moments to complete, and I'm sure it'll be greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the management team of EMV CAPITAL PLC, we'd like to thank you for attending today's presentation, and good morning to you all.