Cohance Lifesciences (NSE:COHANCE) Q1 2027 Earnings Call

0:00 Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q1 FY 'twenty seven Earnings Conference Call of Cohance Lifesciences. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode, and there will be an opportunity to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Please note that this conference is being recorded. Before we begin, I would like to remind you that today's discussion may include forward looking statements that are subject to risks and uncertainties. Actual results may differ materially from those expressed or implied.

0:48 We encourage you to review the disclosures filed by the company. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Cinderella Carvalho. Over to you, ma'am. Thank you, Dorvin. Good evening, and good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining Cohance Lifesciences quarter one FY twenty seven earnings call. Today with me, I have our executive chairman and group CEO, mister Umang Gora mister Yan, CEO, pharma CDMO mister Gunder Singh, CEO, API Plus mister Amrit Singh, CEO, Specialty Chemicals and our CFO, mister Manshu Agarwal.

1:33 With that, I will hand it over to Uma for his opening remarks. Thank you, Cinderella, and good evening, good morning to everyone. As we had indicated in our previous earnings call, Q1 would Q1 of this year would be our lowest quarter ever, and that is how the quarter has played out. From here onwards, we expect improvement in Q2 and the return to year on year growth from the second half. This will be supported by scheduled commercial program deliveries, execution of the restocking orders, progressive normalization in the effective operations and improving utilization across our platform. The customized ADC payload order remains on schedule for delivery in Q2.

2:22 In oligonucleotides, shipments under a program supporting an orphan drug candidate commenced from Cipalla during quarter one, providing additional visibility to our revenue trajectory. Customer qualifications and new program awards should progressively support growth through the year. My recent interactions with customers highlighted that they are seeking dependable partners who can combine innovation with supply chain resilience, what we describe as innovation plus one approach. Cohance is positioned to participate because we can support programs from early development through scale up and commercial supply, while bringing specialized chemistry and manufacturing capabilities into a common operating system.

3:08 I would like to spend some time on two areas where I have invested my initial time. The first is our broader nucleic acid business anchored in our subsidiary, Sapala. What we've heard consistently from customers is that to engage with us as an is that they would like to engage with us as an integrated nucleic acid offering, bringing together chemistry, development, manufacturing and commercial supply. We have, therefore, begun aligning these capabilities into one operating approach. Doctor. PY Reddy has agreed to lead this combined nucleic acid business through FY 'thirty in addition to continuing as the CEO of Sapala. We are also aligning R and D business development, manufacturing and commercial execution across the platform and deploying capital selectively commercializing the new amiodize facility and expanding our oligonucleotide capabilities in line with customer demand.

4:08 Alongside this, we've also agreed to a clear path to ownership of Sapala, fast growing and highly profitable business by FY 'thirty. Doctor. PY Reddy remains invested and will continue to lead the business through this period. Hence, the first change is about building one integrated nucleic acid business with clear leadership, operating accountability and a defined path to full ownership. Jan will take you through the operating progress on our nucleic acid business. The second area is specialty chemicals and, more specifically, agrochemicals. As you're aware, since the last few months, we have been trying to source and add innovative products and partnerships to improve the relevance of our business to our partners. Our assessment is that this business has relevant chemistry, established customer relationships and a credible pipeline of innovative programs.

5:02 We have now addressed this by starting to revamp our capacity for the next set of agrochemical programs. We are working towards a more integrated organization and a clear governance model for this business. Amrit will take you through the aspects of our business in greater detail. Let me now come to the operating priorities for Cohance. There are five areas we are working on. First, we're strengthening our safety and quality systems through enhanced process safety reviews, greater automation and closed handling of critical operations, independent site audits, stronger data systems and tighter control practices. These initiatives are intended to make our operating foundation more consistent, scalable and inspection ready across the network.

5:54 During Q1, we had multiple audits by large innovative partners across the pharma CDMO platform, including our API manufacturing sites. These audits were completed without any critical findings, reinforcing customer confidence in our operating systems. Second, we are progressing the organizational and operational integration of our newer platforms, including the alignment of R and D, manufacturing and commercial teams. In parallel, we are evaluating targeted capacity additions across small molecules, ADCs, API plus and specialty chemicals to support the next phase of growth. Third, our growth agenda is becoming more focused.

6:39 In small molecule CDMO, the priority is to deepen strategic customer relationships and pursue opportunities for forward integration. In ADCs, we are building an increasingly integrated offering across payloads, linkers and bioconjugation. In API plus we are expanding selectively into adjacent higher value opportunities and innovator life cycle management programs. In oligonucleotides, the focus is on operationalizing our GMP facility and progressively commercializing selected product families. Specialty Chemicals will concentrate on adding anchor relationships and identifying growth drivers in the innovation domain. Fourth, we are building the organization scientific envelope by strengthening the R and D structure, increasing access to external scientific expertise and identifying new capabilities that can create differentiated customer value over time.

7:38 And finally, and fifth, we are reinforcing a one COHANCE culture, bringing together the capabilities, teams and operating practices of the combined organization around common standards of accountability, execution and customer focus. My confidence comes from the strength of the underlying customer relationships and scientific capabilities and from multiple distinct engines of growth within Cohance. There are also tangible indicators of progress within our pharma CDMO business. We have received significant restocking orders for commercial molecules, of which Jan will give more color in detail in his presentation. Our commercial OTIF remained at a very high rate of almost close to 100%.

8:30 Our progress is also receiving external recognition. Cohance achieved the EcoVares Gold, strong CDP ratings and an SBTI validation, while our sites were recognized by the British Safety Council and the Andhra Pradesh Fire Services Department. We also successfully completed the ISO 22,301 business continuity certification audit. Before I hand over, as you are all aware, Himanshu will remain in his role until September 13, and we will update you on succession process as it progresses. As this is his last earnings call with us, I would also like to thank him. He's played an important role in supporting the merger, integration and the financial framework of the combined organization.

9:21 We thank him for his contribution and wish him every success in the next chapter. With that, let me hand you over to Jan to take you through our CDMO business. Thank you, Humank, and good morning, and good evening, everyone. I will cover the operational performance across Small Molecules, the ADC payload business, NGBio and Sapala. As Humank mentioned, Q1 was affected by customer shipment phasing, resulting in softer revenue, as guided earlier. Q1 pharma CDMO revenue declined by 38.7% year on year.

10:07 Certain deliveries moved from Q1 into Q2 and are now on track for delivery this quarter. The underlying portfolio, however, continued to progress. Two molecules have recently moved into commercial supply with deliveries scheduled across Q2 and Q3 for six intermediates. For one commercial molecule that faced destocking last year, we have now received a restocking order providing meaningful delivery visibility for Q4 fiscal year 'twenty seven and fiscal year 'twenty eight. During the quarter, we made further progress in moving up the value chain with an existing biotech customer, expanding our participation in a Phase II program from the supply of KFM to an API order.

11:05 Our RFQ pipeline continued to strengthen during the quarter, supported by many Phase III RFM commercial supply inquiries from a large pharma company, along with additional commercial and late stage inquiries from all the large pharmaceutical customers and Western CDMOs. Our operational delivery remained strong with commercial OTIF at 100% year to date. The commercial versus development share was 57%, 43% during Q1. Customer audits across manufacturing sites were completed without any critical findings. The CAPA review for another strategic customer also progressed positively, with potential new awards linked to the planned audit later in the year.

12:01 Moving to the ADC payload business. The team continued to execute the existing portfolio and advanced new payload and payload linker inquiries. Customer feedback on the commercial KSN program was positive. Another customer audit was completed successfully, and we expect this to support an additional payload order. Certain payload deliveries originally scheduled for Q1 have moved into subsequent quarters based on customer requirements. The recent products added to our portfolio, namely MMAE and exatecan, are receiving good traction from a market welcoming alternative to Chinese suppliers. At Angio Bio, execution of the ADC drug product program continued with another GMP ADC batch released during the period.

12:55 The team also operationalized an additional GMP manufacturing laboratory at Princeton, expanding its ability to support small molecule and biologic programs through Phase I and Phase II clinical development. Alongside these, NJ Bio continued to strengthen its translational platform, including in vitro and in vivo capabilities, while engaging customer across ABC, conjugation, oligonucleotides, AOC and other complex modality programs. Work also continued on suite, qualification and readiness activity. The immediate operating focus is to deliver the committed batches and secure renewal of the ongoing FDA program.

13:43 We remain watchful of the biotech funding environment, which continues to inform the timing of customer decision and FDA renewal. In Onigonucleotide segment, under Sappala, supply commenced under a specialized nucleic acid building block program during Q1. As a result, Sappala reported 2.5x revenue growth in Q1. As discussed by Herman, we have initiated our integrated nucleic acid offering team to discuss with our customers. The team is also is now progressing follow on supply and forward integration opportunities in building block programs.

14:29 Work on GMP operationalization and validation of priority analyte is also progressing. Existing FDA engagements with large pharma customers continue to expand, and we look forward to adding new programs and new customers, including biotech. Overall, the Q1 revenue shortfall was predominantly related to shipments, timing and customer approvals. The commercial restocking order has been secured. Recently commercialized programs are scheduled for delivery across Q2 and Q3, and the late stage opportunity for more has expanded. These operational developments support sequential growth in Q2 and improving momentum through second half fiscal year 'twenty seven.

15:19 With that, I will hand over to Gunjan for the API plus and formulation update. Thank you, Jan, and good morning and good evening, everyone. I will cover API plus which comprises our API and formulations businesses. Within this segment, the API business remained resilient, performing slightly ahead of our internal expectations during the quarter with favorable pricing and an improved product mix. Performance was also impacted by the timing of certain commercial orders and validation campaigns shifting to later quarters, while one program was affected by an operational event at the customer facility. These were largely timing related factors.

16:06 And importantly, the underlying demand remains healthy with a robust API order book supporting our outlook for the year. From a commercial and regulatory standpoint, we continue to make good progress. During the quarter, we saw a very good market traction on the inquiries for our products and advanced several strategic programs across regulated markets. We also secured two CEP approvals and filed two Korean DMS. For FY 'twenty seven, we continue to target seven new API filings. The portfolio is increasingly focused on niche assets in CNS and controlled substances space, while targeting value maximization through our value chain play across intermediate, API, pellets and formulations.

16:57 We are creating a basket of opportunities for the long term, primarily focusing on the life cycle management with innovators, leveraging our strong cost structure and chemistry skills and the ability to impact the value chain. We have recently invested in a commercial flow reactor at our Zajapate site, and it is expected to be ready by next quarter. Operational execution also remains strong. We completed debottlenecking initiatives for a few products, commissioned a new effluent treatment facility at Ankleshwar and successfully completed 11 customer audits across our API manufacturing sites. These actions enhance both capacity and compliance while supporting future growth requirements. In the formulation business, performance was slightly below our expectations for the quarter.

17:48 Revenue was impacted by an API production delay, lower demand for a mature product and a customer led change in pack configuration. Despite these headwinds, business development activities continue to advance well. We finalized a supply agreement covering selected Middle Eastern market. We progressed multiple pellets and modified release opportunities and supported the launch of a new topical product in for The U. S. Market through a partner. In addition, two further product launches are scheduled for during Q2 and around 10 launches in this fiscal year. At Nacharam, the remediation and operational stabilization remains our immediate priority.

18:34 Kappa implementation continues to progress in line with plan, supported by ongoing engagements with the regulator. Operational performance is steadily improving and the product supplies have resumed as we work towards a full normalization. Overall, we remain confident in the outlook for API plus The business continues to demonstrate resilience. Our development pipeline is advancing well and the actions underway across formulations and Nachara position us to strengthen performance progressively throughout the year. While near term execution remains our focus, we believe these initiatives create a strong foundation for sustainable double digit growth over the medium term. With that, I will hand over to Amrit for the Specialty Chemicals update.

19:22 Thank you, Gunjan, and good morning and good evening, everyone. Turning to Specialty Chemicals. The business is progressing through an important portfolio transition. Our near term priority is to strengthen the existing revenue base while developing a broader set of innovator led programs across ACAM CDMO and Performance Materials. During Q1, Performance Materials delivered growth, while the agrochemical segment declined. Since we are expecting FY 'twenty seven to be skewed towards H2 due to season led phasing of products. Overall, specialty chemicals declined 34.7% year on year in Q1, primarily led by expected H2 dominated phasing of products in NACAM CDMO. In NACAM, a confirmed active ingredient program with an existing global innovator entered registration process during Q1.

20:13 This can be a meaningful opportunity in the future. We also progressed multiple customer programs through various qualification stages. This includes the first qualification campaign with the two Japanese innovators scheduled in FY 'twenty seven. Our medium term objective is to qualify approximately two new products each year, combining opportunities with the existing anchor customer and new customer across Europe and Japan. In Performance Materials, Q1 performance was in line with our internal plan. The photochromic portfolio remained balanced, supported by our established chemistry platforms and customer relationships. In OLED materials, new business activity is beginning to improve, supported by a broader pipeline of molecules under development and scale up.

21:01 We're also applying our chemistry capabilities to adjacent area, such as materials used in semiconductor processing. From an execution perspective, as Umang highlighted, we are finalizing a dedicated R and D manufacturing and asset strategy for the segment. Automation and operation operating upgrades across the specialty chemicals network will also support improved safety and efficiency along with the required scalability. To turn this segment as innovator product led business. FY 'twenty seven, as qualified by us, will be year of qualification and would help us support our base in previous year against the Chinese generic pressure in the ACM segment. From FY 'twenty eight onwards, we believe this portfolio can support a sustained trajectory of double digit growth subject to customer qualification and regulatory time lines.

21:50 With that, I hand over to Himanshu to cover the financial performance. Thank you. Thanks, Samir. As indicated earlier, quarter one was a low quarter on both revenue and EBITDA. Our consolidated revenue from operations was $223,000,000 a decline of 23% year on year. The quarter was affected by shipment and order phasing in pharma CDMO, a softer contribution from agrochemicals, lower formulation revenue and the timing of execution across part of the portfolio. This was partly offset by strong growth at Cephalah and resilient API performance.

22:39 Consolidated gross margin was at 71.5% compared with 73 in quarter one FY 'twenty six. The decline primarily reflected the product mix and the lower contribution from the high margin pharma CDMO business. Higher freight, logistics and raw material costs also affected the quarter. Part of this cost was mitigated through selective price pressure, price pop through to customer across business segments. Adjusted EBITDA was at $92,000,000 representing a margin of 2.2%. The reduction reflects the lower revenue base, negative operating leverage and the impact of subsidiary consolidation.

23:28 It's important to look at the components of the consolidated performance. The stand alone business generated a revenue of 3,599 million dollars and adjusted EBITDA of $332,000,000 representing a margin of 9.2%. Sapala added revenue of $274,000,000 a growth of 2.5x year on year, while maintaining a strong EBITDA margin. Angio Bio, by comparison, reported revenue of $350,000,000 lower than the corresponding period last year and below our internal expectations. It recorded an adjusted EBITDA loss of $328,000,000 The stand alone business in Sapala are therefore in a materially strong operating position than the consolidated numbers.

24:19 At the same time, NJ Bio's current performance is weighing significantly on consolidated profitability. Until revenue conversion improves, Angio Bio is expected to continue affecting the consolidated performance in the near term. Capital expenditure during the quarter was approximately $598,000,000 as we continue to invest in capabilities required for future growth. Our balance sheet remains resilient with consolidated net cash of approximately 2,512 million dollars as of 06/30/2026. The recovery phasing outlined in Oman is in line with our financial framework. We expect sequential improvement in quarter two and movement towards year on year comparability by end of the first half and return on year on year growth from the second half.

25:17 Given the unusually low operating base in quarter one, margin recovery will be weighted towards the second half of the year. The pace of improvement will depend on revenue conversion, business mix, utilization and delivery against the operating milestones discussed today. I would also want to add that we have just announced that US FDA has completed its inspection of our Parshan Malam facility, which was conducted from July 27 to to Following this, we have received a Form four eighty three with five observations. None of them relate to data integrity. We are reviewing the observation and will respond to the agency within the stipulated timelines.

26:03 With that, I'll hand back to Sundrella. Thank you, Himanshu. I request operator Dawid to open the floor for q and a. Certainly, ma'am. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Questions. Our first question comes from the line of Kunal Damesha with Macquarie. So for the opportunity. So the first question is, in your view, when you assess this business segment, right, and some of the recovery might take time. But when you look at the target addressable market with the capability that the company has, let's say, a two to three year perspective, where do you see the growth range for each of these business segments?

27:30 I mean, because we have provided a lot of detail as in, you know, we have our customer audits and purchase orders. Right? So keeping all that into, you know, your view and into that equation. Let's say, FY twenty seven quantification of where we would see in terms of revenue growth, directionally suggested by FY 'twenty seven. And then beyond FY 'twenty seven, how should we think each of this business segment? Thanks, Konal. Thank you for your question. I think a couple of points. I see let me just outline. This may not be strictly what you're looking for, but I can give you some color on what I'm seeing across our businesses.

28:22 I think on the let me start with let me start on the CDMO side. I think the market in the ametites oligonucleotide space and the relative stock position and scientific capability that the Sappala and the Cohance organization have built is going to be a very significant growth driver for the future. So I actually see that in three years or so that this business and whatever we have has a solid chance of in three to four years of almost doubling and growing significantly faster than this, right? Now that's directional. It's not what our track plan target is and what it will be, but I'm just trying to share with you what I think The can second business where I see huge amount of growth is on the ADC side. I think currently, that business, we're seeing the costs more than the revenue at this stage.

29:27 And I think that's because of reasons where specifically on the ADC side and NJ Bio, the cost basis of that business is today challenged for more revenue. And I think once the revenue trajectory there comes back, which is what we are hoping will happen as we did lose some level of FTE customers there because of the biotech funding concerns that happened some time back, at least even if the profitability of the business doesn't reach where we want it to be, I believe that the cost base would get amortized significantly, right? And as we speak, NJ Bio and the combination with Cohance in terms of payloads and everything else can is beginning to build a pipeline that we think is significant. So my objective on that side of the business, to be honest, is just to make sure that the cost the amount of cost that is running in that business is commensurate to the amount of revenue we can generate in the future.

30:43 I think on the small molecule chemistry side, I actually see very large potential for several reasons. I think our teams have been in the marketplace for a fair amount of time now. And this is about the time when conversions begin to happen. We're not seeing much of that in the up till the previous quarter. But in this quarter, which is the late period of quarter one and in the beginning of quarter two, we're beginning to see some solid reload orders and some solid conversions coming through, which is building to this thesis that Jan has laid out in terms of our pipelines beginning to look good and the pipeline is looking good. So half two of this year, I think we will have a pretty strong hoping to see a strong CDMO performance. I also think that this next quarter in CDMO will be significantly better than quarter one that we've done. And I think longer term, this business is poised for good growth because quite honestly, when I look at the reporting universe outside in India, that side of the business is showing growth across most of our peers. And so therefore, I do think that getting back our ability to service customers here and new business is very strong.

32:09 Let me go to the API plus business. I think this is for us as much an API business as we as people generally call it, but also a business that has legacy where we deal with innovators and in a very significant manner with a few innovators who we also deal with on the CDMO side of our business. So there is predictability to this business that we are beginning to see now. And in many ways, if you were to understand the Cohance model, this is a bedrock of what the CDMO business and the AdChem business will add to as we begin to top up and add up as a company. So I see very steady growth, pretty sustainable. I think Gunjan and his team are doing a good job in terms of just being able to look at locking customers.

33:00 And I think this could be a CAGR business going forward, where eventually, I also think at the size and scale of this business, we're still probably just 30%, 40% of our potential over a three- to year period, right? So I think that's where I think this business will go. And the profitability also in this business is can be significant. Coming to our Performance Chem and Ad Chem business, I think one of the things that Amrit has spoken about is the need for this business to move up the value chain to partner with innovators. So far, for whatever reasons, we have been in this business of trying to partner with a limited number of molecules and a limited amount of capacity.

33:46 And I think we're trying to unlock some of the existing capacity, refurbish some of it, but also tie up with innovators on challenges that they come across. And I think and Ad Chem also has the unfortunate issue of going through a downturn across the world. But I think from what we are seeing in terms of new products that we're landing with innovators, etcetera, this business has also got a very strong potential to improve its profitability and improve its top line. And it could be in the same ballpark range that we have been talking about for the rest of the businesses. So I think that all three businesses have the potential, some because of the base effect, some because they just mined the opportunities now over the last one, one point five years with new BD teams and some because they have reached a size like the API plus business has reached a particular size that offers the stability and bedrock for Cohance going forward.

34:49 So in simple I'm sorry, I gave you a very long answer, but I think that the business has the ability clearly to begin to show solid growth over the next three to three plus years. And most of this will start becoming visible only second half of FY 'twenty seven. And just from your pecking order perspective, in terms of, let's say, the capital allocation or the future capacity addition, is it very nuanced as to when we just look at that, okay, I can do this molecule, hence I invest? Or is it more top down that CDMO is the biggest data generator and hence all focus on CDMO?

35:40 And then how do you think about these? Because and the synergies of these business, right? What is your sense on the synergies of this? The API and probably CDMO, small molecule CDMO is almost everyone is doing. But Ed Chem and Specialty Chem business, how does that fit into the overall scheme? Yes. Let me I think if your question is how do we characterize capital allocation in the business, let me answer it not potentially by business segment, right? Because quite honestly, I could see a really exciting opportunity in an API plus business or an innovation partnered AdChem business, which might actually be higher than the ROI in some of our other business segments, right? So what we are prioritizing in terms of allocation of capacity is where is the COHANCE hook, where is it that we are better than the world. It could be areas like colored compounds, could be other areas where we believe we have positions where we've historically done intermediates for innovators.

36:52 And we prioritize that section of the business, the section of the business that works with innovation, the section of the business that has the ability innovators across our chain, whether it's pharma, whether it's life sciences, Ag Chem, right? And that's the part of the business that we're trying to feed. Now a lot of it naturally gravitates towards pharma CDMO, but even our API strategy is equally about building positions with innovators and more solid positions that offer stability. So the ROI rubric within the organization is significant from an NPV perspective, but it's also trying to drive the company up the value chain to partner with innovators. Sure.

37:39 And from synergy perspective, is it very different, the FKM and specialty K manufacturing? Or do they share some of the KSMs? Or so there is some economies of scale that is being offered? Well, let me put it this way. If you logically, the API and the CDMO businesses are closer, right, than the Ad Chem and the Performance Chem business. However, having said that, we have a few facilities where Ad Chem and more importantly, Performance Chem happen in the same location may not be in the same block, right, as we make our production. So the synergies that we get from our Ad Chem and Production and Performance Chem business are around the areas of deleveraging common overheads, right, at facilities, but also some customers operate in this segment as well, right? Some of our innovator customers on the pharma side are also kind of common with the I mean, the companies are the same. The teams may be different on the performance chem side of the business performance chem and ad chem side of the business.

38:55 Sure. And lastly, on the cost side, while you talked about NZ Bio, where our near term plan will be to match the cost with the revenue. But overall, at a console level, do you see opportunities to optimize the cost? And if yes, what's the potential there? No, I think let me put it this, there is always potential to optimize cost, whether it's in supply chain or in the organization. But I think for us, optimizing those costs, which are not creating the value we want. There could be capacities which are running at low utilizations.

39:40 They could be, as I mentioned, around the whole ADC space and the amount of costs that we incur in The U. S. On NJ Bio, etcetera. So we're trying to optimize that section to generate more revenue, to generate more utilization as against taking an approach right now to begin to cut and curtail. Sure. Sure. Thank you for answers, and thank you very much for all the help that you provided during your tenure and all the best. Thanks, Suraj. Appreciate. Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Shyam Sunewassan with Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.

40:30 Yes. Good evening. Thank you for taking my question. Just on the CDMO business from a macro standpoint, how are things looking right now? There is this legislative angle around the Department of Defense list, meaning certain peers of yours. So I just want to understand what's happening from a macro trend. How is this translating into RFQ and, say, order win rates for Indian companies, including ourselves, if you could just give us some color, please? Jan, will you be able to take this up? Yes, I can. Can you hear me well? Yes, we can. Okay.

41:17 So the overall megatrends, right, for Indian CDMO have not changed, right? So there are several trends that are helping Indian CDMOs. The first one is the geopolitical situation where we see large pharmaceutical companies and also biotech trying to diversify their supply and that are coming more and more to India to shop for R and D support and manufacturing support, okay? So that has not changed. We also see more and more alignment in terms of supply for intermediate and starting material between India and U. S, as you may imagine, right?

42:16 There are significant efforts in U. S. To direct also some of the supply coming from other countries. So that's good. We see that it does translate into increased number of RFQs that we are seeing, especially in late stage RFQs, so Phase III and commercial that we are bidding on. Now I mean for those RFQs, please keep in mind that the clients have always already one or two sources. So it takes a little bit longer. It takes a little bit longer for conversion into actual business because clients are not in a hurry to do the change.

43:07 But that's the situation today, and we are benefiting from that situation at COHANCE. Helpful. Just my second question is on the API plus business. I think there's some commentary that you've shared around pricing discipline. So again, are we able to kind of adjust the prices upwards in response to say, solvent prices or any other inputs? And how does this translate into growth for this particular business when we look forward? Thank you. I'll take this one. So firstly, thanks for the question. The price increase, which happened during the last quarter, largely due to the larger raw material price escalations, which we witnessed because of the geopolitical situation.

44:01 We tried our level best in terms of transferring a decent portion of that increase to our customers. The business is typically on relationships. So we have to be mindful of the near term and the long term play there. However, we were able to pass on a major chunk of the cost escalation in terms of price increases. In this business, typically, and then as Uman also mentioned, the profitability and the growth still remains robust. The key sources of growth are going to be with new product addition and building up further on the relationships like the life cycle management opportunities with the innovators and capturing the value chain proposition with our play all across intermediate APIs, pellets and formulations.

44:57 So these are the key drivers for growth, which we are trying to capitalize on. Got it. Just my last question on financial metrics, which is EBITDA margins. Stand alone, we did 9%. Historically, we have had higher margins when operating leverage plays out positively. Given the kind of changes we have seen in the business structure, do you foresee that margins whenever they normalize, say, fiscal 'twenty, 'twenty nine, whenever you want to call out, would they be materially different to how history has been? Do you think under the new structure of how the entire it could be standalone margins could be controlled because now you're talking about even supplier plus NJ Bio. So just any outlook on how we should look at overall margin? I'm not pinning you down for a specific year, but just how we should look at it in the platform. Thank you. All the best.

45:54 John, see, I think among to Kunal's question, they were very good view on how we're looking at the business and how the business would span out in three to four years. Mean the fact is that the current quarter has a significant operating leverage given the way the revenue is. And our expectation is that as the top line increases, which it will, the operating leverage will start to play in, right? And so given the way the business would span out, the margins will start to come back. Now whether it will reach to 35, I mean, at this point in time, it's difficult to articulate that. But yes, we are expecting the margins to steadily increase year on year given the operating leverage that would play in.

46:55 Our next question comes from the line of Bansi Desai with JPMorgan. Uman, my first question is to you. In your opening remarks, you mentioned your confidence in Cohance's recovery stems from the fact that there is scientific capabilities. And we appreciate the fact that when it comes to ABCs and oligonucleotides, Cohance does have a differentiated positioning. But if you look at the broader small molecule business, which is still a bigger part of the CDMO TAM for the industry, where the competition is so intense, why what will make a customer choose Cohance over, say, other CDMO companies? So where do you see the differentiation there that will help Cohance win more business?

47:55 Great question. Thanks, and I'm happy to answer it. And I think, look, there are certain types. So there are in this business, my understanding so far, and again, in as much as I can just tell you what I've seen in the last three to four months and what I know about this business from outside. I think there are two or three things that happen. A relationship starts with the customer, which begins to result in scientific exchange of ideas across both sides I mean, across the customer and the client. And eventually, what begins to happen is that because of the scientific expertise that is transferred, that relationship continues to grow.

48:44 And along with what gets transferred, you also begin to build capabilities that are structured for in your organization for the benefit of the partner that you're working with. If you look around the CDMO universe today, many of our peers have these two or three anchor relationships with customers, which have resulted in their businesses reaching a critical size. And it's all because the relationship started with one or two customers and eventually moved into multiple products by deepening the relationship with those. I think some of our peers may have actually moved faster than Cohance, and that's a certainty now considering where Cohance is in the molecule business. And to some extent, the leadership churn that has happened in Cohance did not help this going in the past.

49:41 However, the way we look at it now, we have anchor relationships with our customers. We've built significant trust with at least two or three customers we've had over the past couple of years. And to be honest, a lot of these customers did not necessarily increase the width of their business with us in the past two to three years. And we are hoping that, that changes now. That's one source of revenue, which is not easily replaceable because gaining this trust and building this trust and widening this relationship, at least for the businesses of Cohance, has taken seven years. And the general sense is that this investing of time takes seven to ten years for everybody like Cohance to do across the universe, right? So that's number one. That's your biggest hook.

50:30 And we feel confident about our existing relationships widening. The second, where you compete is because of this transfer of technology, information of science that happens between large innovative companies and yourself, you start becoming better at what you do. You start having more differentiated analytical methods. You start creating a team of scientists that customers want to call when they have a problem. And at that point in time, when you begin to see just the type of people who are very big in our sector, the companies like Bibi, companies like LORUS, right, they have matured this capability over several years. And I think Cohance is in a journey where it's getting on to that path to get and develop the science envelope for itself. So you compete on the basis of your relationships.

51:26 You compete on the basis of your science and your capability, which is the journey that we are on, right? And from our starting position, if you were to take where we are today and our starting position, I think you'd come to the conclusion that we have capability, capacity and hunger to be able to do it. The third is costs. Right now, it's a great area to play costs because everybody wants the lowest cost. But my general belief, that's not a very sustainable proposition. So you have to bank back on your relationship and on your scientific progress and the science envelope that you have as a company. So this is where we will compete. We will compete in what we know best. We will compete in things where our manufacturing setups have unique features, which require certain types of chemistry.

52:19 And we will compete and widen what our partners for the partners who have worked with us and try and get new partners as well. Yes. This is quite helpful. And if you if we look at our Phase III pipeline, so we have good number of assets there, 10 assets in Phase III if that's the updated number. Just based on that, do we have the confidence to grow this business significantly over next three to four years? Do you believe there are those high value opportunities sitting there? Because these opportunities is just a matter of commercialization, right? We already are there in Phase III with these customers.

53:06 So just looking at our late stage pipeline today, do we have confidence of delivering that high growth over the next two to three years? Yes, I think so. I think those 10 products in pipeline in Phase III are what technically should be driving a lot of the growth. But let me also request Jan to talk about those 10 and what he thinks could be potential going forward. So very good question, and thanks, Uman, for having the questions here. Maybe one thing to keep in mind always, right? In our commercial and before I answer the Phase III, let me answer on the commercial side.

53:53 On the commercial area, I always mentioned that we have a binaural distribution, right, with a lot of freshly approved molecules and a few molecules that are maturing, okay? So and that explains why our revenue has gone down, right? And why we are very confident that it will go up from now on because we have very I mean a lot of reloads, right, related to the molecules that have just entered the market. So they are in the growth phase with our customers. So that's on the commercial side of the business. On the Phase III, we are in, as indicated, 10 molecules, and we have reloads that are coming on a regular basis. So of course, as you know, some of those molecules may not make it to the market because they will be they will not get the approval at the end. But at least we can expect that more than 50% should get the approval at the end, right?

55:01 And here, we are very well positioned as well, and that will feed our pipeline that is maturing, if you want, right? So the first node of the pipeline, the one that is in the growth phase. So that's the reason why we are very confident in our ability to grow the small molecule CDMO business in the near future. And just one last question. In our existing commercial portfolio, do we have any product which is likely to see patent expiration in the near future? Is there anything that we should be mindful of? Yes, that is correct. We have two molecules that are expected to have patent expiration.

55:50 However, since we are supplying the intermediate and the intermediates that we are supplying today are for post patent expiration of the product. We have already seen the decrease in the past two fiscal years. That's what I meant by the binaural distribution, right? So the second node, the one that is more mature, if you want, we've already seen the decrease. The next question is from the line of Foram Parekh with BOB Capital Markets.

56:40 My first question is on the growth outlook for three to four years. Since we have a good visibility and robust... I mean, we have spoken about doubling our ADC and oligonucleotide business, and we have a little more positive growth outlook from three to four years perspective. So just wanted to understand, how are we looking at the $1,000,000,000 sales target that we had given for FY 'thirty? I mean, do we still retain that target? I still haven't got that level of granularity, but I will definitely come back to that as I had promised before the end of the year.

57:34 And it's not that I'm trying to skirt the question. I just don't have a firm enough answer for you, but I will endeavor to get one by December. At this point, I'm almost feeling like that the target is an aspiration. I'm not sure that we're at a point where we can say how close or whether how close far or whether we'd exceed it at this point in time. But quite honestly, to have $1,000,000,000 aspiration is a great aspiration for this business, right? I do think we may be a little bit away from it over the next three to four years, but I'd love to put more color to it before I can answer you. Sure. No problem. And my second question is on the restocking of molecule.

58:26 So I think we had a destocking impact of to the tune of INR $2.60 crores, as we called out last quarter. So if you can give us just some color, how much percentage of this are we seeing for restocking in this year, some color there? Puram, as we said that of the two molecules, one molecule is what we have announced as coming back. And I think what Jan had also mentioned that the order is spread over the two years. So I think it is a bit early at this stage to kind of quantify how much of the two sixty would come in because I would wait for looking at the progress on the other molecule as well.

59:24 And so do allow us some time. We'll get a better clarity probably by the end of the second call in terms of how much we should be looking at to come in this year and what we'll be looking at in FY 'twenty eight as No problem. My last question... Jan, would you want to add something else? Sorry, I'm going to ask Jan if he wants to add something more because he has a deeper color on the restocking. I think it's a fair answer, Himanshu. I don't have anything to add at this stage. No problem. My last question is on the segmental mix.

1:00:10 So this quarter, our API plus segment has gone up to 60%. So how should we look at this pie? I mean, do we see it sustainable for the rest of the year? And if you can give us some color on the profitability side also, since we said it's not like a normal commodity API business as we also deal with the innovators. So if you can give us some color or, you know, like, how the profitability usually is in this business because we are seeing some good, you know, growth as we have 10 new products to be launched in this segment? Sure.

1:01:00 See, I think what we have in API plus is a pretty differentiated portfolio, a portfolio which is highly concentrated on CNS segment. If you see CNS after obesity and oncology is the third fastest growing segment and will continue with the amount of innovation which is happening in CNS is very high. And definitely, the portfolio and the relationships with the customers would get an advantage of the same there. Additionally, we are also pretty strong in controlled substances. Some of which came through the legacy acquisition, and we have further nurtured the relationships as well as the portfolio there. So we are adding more such niche products that can have a hook with the customer to whom we are doing this current controlled substances businesses.

1:01:54 There's an inherent entry barrier because of the supply chain and the regulatory limitations on managing the controlled substances. Plus, as you also already mentioned and Humang also commented, we have a decent chunk of innovative relationships with us. There are products with the innovators, where we are commanding more than 50% of the global market share. And we are further increasing the share of wallet with them by adding more products. So the advantage in innovator relationships is that once they invest their resources in qualifying your manufacturing client by auditing on the quality, safety, digital, IT, finance, all those areas, they tend to stick with you. So we have been leveraging, and we further want to double down on these levers which we have.

1:02:55 Our margin profile is I can't exactly comment on a number. I'll leave it to Himanshu for that. But we have a pretty handsome among the top tier within the industry in terms of the generic API space, if you see. Sure. And how should we look at the mix? This current quarter's mix, do we see it sustainable as this segment would be the larger growing segment in our portfolio? Of course, I think all that's the larger, I think, thesis here that all the three verticals should fire at their maximum, right? So whether it is Jan, Amrita or myself, we will all working very strong in terms of growing our relative size there.

1:03:49 However, I do see a sustained growth, largely backed by the kind of new product addition. So as you might have read or heard, we are filing seven products this year, and we did around nine products last year. And this is in a business where historically, previously, very few filings were there, right? So we have accelerated the new filing thing, adding new products. We are investing in new capacities for commercializing these products there. So of course, the revenues would come in. So I'm pretty confident of a decent continuous growth in this segment. Sure. No problem. And my last question, if I may, is to Himanshu.

1:04:35 Himanshu, if not on it's on the EBITDA margin. If not 35%, but if you can give us some color where are we internally seeing, you know, first milestone EBITDA margin to be achieved at least in the next two to three years? So, Puram, I think, see, we should we should be looking at a number which will be closer to previous year margin percentage for the current year. Yeah? And we should thereafter start accelerating from '28 onwards. Sure. That's helpful. Thank you, and all the best. Thank you.

1:05:21 Our next question is from the line of Shreya Chatterjee with Ageless Capital. Please go ahead. Would it be possible to give some color as to how the different segments of the business, like pharma CDMO, tech chem plus ac chem, and then API plus and the initiative as well will evolve over the next two to three quarters as in how like how many molecules that are going to come in the pipeline and all? What revenues can we expect from these all these segments? So that will be my first question over the next two to three quarters. Can I request that we send this to you? We had actually given an answer to a similar effect to Cohance's first question on the call.

1:06:14 If it's okay with you, I can request Cindy to give you that to send you that response, if it's fine. Sure. No problem. But in general, if you can just tell me like like what all molecules you expect to see, especially in the pharma CDM on the ADC side in this year? Yes. In this year, I think we've guided towards the half two being growth over the previous year. And so we will have new molecules as well as our reload and older molecules. But we don't give the type of color that you're asking. But the color that we gave when we answered Cohance's question at the beginning of the call was about the longer term prospects of the business, which Cinderella will share with you.

1:07:08 Sure, sure. No worries. And my second question is on the other expenses side. So I understand because this was a, like, low revenue quarter, the operating leverage... There was operating deleverage, actually, but we have seen the other expenses, like, remain elevated since the module had taken place. So where do we see the other expenses evolving, like, over this year and the next? And what what are the major components in the other expenses? Like, was there some component of module expenses that are going through? If you could just give some breakdown or some color to this other expense part. So there is no merger related expenses, which is appearing in this quarter.

1:07:54 Right? So we don't really have one offs kind of there. Okay. These are more administrative type of expenses, which is there in our regular business. So this will continue over this... Like, this is a this is a... Or, like, as in business as is expense that will continue over this year? Yes. You can take that as an assumption. Sure, sure. Thank you. Thank you for taking my question. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will take that as a last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Ms. Cinderella Carvalho for closing comments. Thank you, everyone, for joining today, and thanks for spending our time. We'll speak on our next quarter.

1:08:45 Thank you. Thank you. On behalf of Cohance Lifesciences, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.