Atome (LSE:ATOM) — Investor Presentation: paving the way for large-scale green ammonia production

0:01 Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the ATOM Energy PLC Investor Presentation. Throughout this recorded presentation, investors will be in listen only mode. Questions are encouraged. The company may not be in a position to answer every question it receives during the meeting itself. However, the company will review all questions submitted today and publish responses where it is appropriate to do so.

0:32 Before we begin, I would like to submit the following poll. And if you could give that your kind attention, I'm sure the company would be most grateful. And I'd now like to hand you over to CEO, Olivier Masat. Good afternoon, sir. Good afternoon, and good afternoon, everyone. Thank you very much for joining us at this investor meet update. So I think a a fair amount of you have already been some of his seen some of his presentations. And, really, the aim of this particular presentation is to go a little bit deeper into the fertilizer market As we've recently announced, Terry back end joined the team just over a month ago, and he really brings a wealth of experience under in the fertilizer market and understanding the ammonia and especially the green ammonia opportunity.

1:20 So with that, I will start going for the usual disclaimers that many of you of you have seen. A little quick slide on expressing, you know, the progress since IPO. Some of you who were here at the IPO remember that our intention was to get to FID on about 80 megawatts of projects. So now we are actually on fast track to get to a 120 megawatt of FID by by this summer, and the and we'll we'll start producing at by mid twenty twenty five. So we have obviously ordered, you know, our first electrolyzer for mobility. We have appointed our owner's engineer. We have bought the land. Now we have Orbas and Kasale appointed who are currently in the middle of design and engineering and actually going a little bit ahead of schedule. We have Netexis as financial adviser as well as IDB Invest. So IDB Invest, it's the Inter American Development Bank,

2:26 which is a development financial institution exactly like the World Bank, but focused on Latin America. So Europe has EBRD. Asia has ADB. Latin America has the IDB. So we're quite excited that they joined the financial advisory engagement to help put together the the debt package with Netexis. And on top of that, they provided some grant to be able to continue and on the environment and social study. We have also created a new JV, opened a new geography in Costa Rica called the National Ammonia Corporation that I will discuss a little bit later in this presentation. And our most recent news has been the appointment of Terry.

3:15 So just this slide shows a little bit of, you know, what what ATOM is all about, what is our presence. As I've discussed on the left, this is the progress on the ATAP project and how we are, again, in a very very infrastructure like manner. You know, very we are being very, very methodical about the way we develop our projects, making sure that we have all of the best parties possible, inching away at all of the studies necessary at putting the financial packages together and to the point that we will be able to get to a final investment decision as well as attract the widest ranges of off takers, infrastructure investors, and lenders, and be in the best position to deliver what will be the largest green ammonia projects in Latin America by 2025 in the year.

4:12 So our management, I think a number of you have seen, this already. So our chairman, Peter. We have James as director of ATOM, Paraguay. And, obviously, he's been doing an incredible job, now that, you know, we've we have the ATO well on track, and we continue to have advanced discussion on the further 300 megawatt of Iguazu. Mayros de Valadares is our non exec who is based in The US, who used to lead the International Energy Agency's ammonia hydrogen unit. Apologies. And our most recent team member and leader, Terry, who comes with thirty five years experience in the fertilizer sector. What we have to remember that we absolutely believe in the green hydrogen, green ammonia economy that will will that will span across all of agriculture, energy, and transport and where ammonia will be used to transport hydrogen as well.

5:12 But the market today and the early cash flow for us will be completely on the fertilizer market. Hence, Terry's experience being quite key. So with that said, I will now pass on to Terry so he can introduce himself and go into more specifics of the ammonia markets. Thank you, Olivier. So I'll I'll give a a couple of minutes introduction to what I've been doing and a few years of experience or or even decades. I started in the fertilizer business in 1988 when I started to work for Denmark's dominant company in Norse Hydro, which later on the agri side became Yara International.

6:08 So I was traveling around the world and involved and engaged in trade and and marketing. Quite operational, quite hands on, doing offtake agreements, which stand for was more like marketing offtake agreements being the off taker. I was engaged on the ammonia trade and shipping side, which brought me to Hong Kong in 1993. And later, I moved to Singapore where I was more on the fertilizer side. I think in Asia, getting to understand the the the trends of emerging markets and and premium fertilizers.

6:57 So because if you meet a Indonesian farmer producing chilies, you understand that their requirement is is quite different than if you are a a grain buyer in in the Midwest. I moved to Brussels in 2000 in 2000 where I was heading Yarra's ammonia trade and shipping business. We also invested a lot in terminals around the world. Notably, we had 20 different vessels, several of them programmed or or or linked to longer term cost arrangements that that optimize Yara's assets.

7:44 You know, these these are things now that being with ATOM, I I see also how we are looking into the same engagements. Then I was promoted to Yara's management in 2005. And Yara is among the leading fertilizer producers and act actors in the world, probably now number two or three on the list in terms of turnover. But it has around $25,000,000,000 in turnover and is clearly the company that is more into marketing and specialty fertilizers. So good to have that background. And then when I started, I was also on the industrial side, which is anything that is used not being fertilizers, like nitrogen for explosives or or even the AdBlue, which is nitrogen used for the NOx abatement of heavy diesel trucks. So then moving on later in 2009, picking up another management position being head of supply and trade.

8:57 So really back into the the big numbers, the big volumes again. And then I left Yara and started with EuroChem. It brought me to Zug in Switzerland where I was part of the management board. I was head of marketing and sales, so a global position. And one of the things that I would highlight from that area is that EuroChem was setting up in Latin America becoming international global. And EuroChem today is a $12,000,000,000 turnover company, but with EBITDA percentage overall 25 to to 45%. So a very strong supply base, and it was, therefore, quite opportune to to go into Brazil, Latin America, Argentina, and bringing with me important experience there now in the work that I'm doing with ATOM.

10:00 I left EuroChem in 2019, and I decided to do something different.

10:06 I was then in the sustainability area with a circular company, basically recycling nutrients, producing green energy. And now I'm back in Oslo again. Happy to be with ATOM. Seeing that that, you know, my my previous experience certainly then matches with with the opportunity that we have in the world. I'm particularly interested, of course, in Paraguay. So a couple of pictures showing fertilizer trends and perspective. So, you know, with with with my years in the fertilizer business, I've also clearly seen how it is changing.

10:55 And I will start with the right hand upper the the top right hand figure, which shows the importance of fertilizers because if it weren't for fertilizers, 50% of population wouldn't have enough calories. But that, you know, therein also likes the challenge going forward because we don't have another Latin America, to to use for for food production. So the the agricultural markets needs to be more efficient for fertilizers. We also need to have more nutrient use efficiency as we talk about. There are three key nutrients in the fertilizer business. It's nitrogen, and it's potash, and it's phosphates, so NPK.

11:45 And nitrogen is what we have Here, you know, again, related to the same figure, it should also be noted that the fertilizer world and agriculture in general have some challenges with sustainability. Obviously, agricultural agriculture being a main emitter of of carbon. More than 30% of greenhouse gases comes from agriculture. And the fertilizer part is largely gray as we call it, So it brings around 2% of the c o two emissions every year. And that's why, of course, new projects like ours is is very important.

12:31 So we see, you know, a big challenge because we need to feed the world. We need to bring 60% more biomass to feed 10,000,000,000 population, and we can only use same land, less water. So and cutting then the greenhouse gas emission at the same way. It's is a big, big challenge. So that's why, of course, the world is is demanding new solutions at ATOM's way. The left hand side then shows how government looks at this and a lot of initiatives and lot of incentive programs in the world, how you're going to tax c o two emissions, how the the the c band, which is a carbon border adjustment mechanism in Europe, is coming already into play in 2025.

13:36 And, of course, the ETS schemes of this world will tax industry. So really, the the legislator of this world then also then clearly have a demand pull represented with society. The third growth is shown at the bottom of this slide. And there we see, you know, the the potential new segments for ammonia, not only as a fertilizer or to be used in industrial applications, but also as a potential shipping fuel, or even to be used, as a carry or as a as a resource for power generation where, you know, you could combine with hydrogen or coal to to have more green solutions, even as a hydrogen carrier because when you transport ammonia, it's energy dense.

14:36 So it makes actually sense to when you see Europe as a future hydrogen hub to trans transport ammonia to feed the the the the hydrogen market as they develop as ammonia is the most efficient way to transport energy. Now so these are then showing a huge potential and a challenge. So that's why, of course, our project is coming at the right time. But let's not forget about the the the agriculture and the food industry because even though you have these new segments, we have enough challenges to to to to be, you know, a fertilizer company because as you know, the consumers, they they they pull, you know, the retailers

15:27 like Whole Foods or Sainsbury's or Walmart, and they, of course, put new solutions and expectations to the food industry who, again, pull new solutions from the farmers and the fertilizer companies. So we see lots of initiatives here. So the demand drive, which I probably find as interesting as as anything, energy transport including, is what's happening in sustainable foods. You see that companies like Nestle and Knorr here, you know, there is a quote by the the global vice president in Knorr that, obviously, they are really challenging challenging themselves to find new sustainable solutions, even partnering with WWF.

16:20 Nestle, of course, you know, when they look at their coffee production today, I understand it used to be eight tons of c o two per ton of coffee. Today, it's down to three tons of c o two per ton of coffee. But going forward, they even have tougher requirements being negative. I also like to highlight that even though I've you know, during last ten years, and I was a board member in Fertilizer Europe, and, of course, we saw the changes. We saw legislators changing. We saw consumers changing. We saw food companies demanding different solutions. And, of course, industrial sectors and industrial nitrogen also uses probably 30% of the current production of 190,000,000 tons.

17:11 So that is seen. So I I see the demand side, and I see that it's changing. But I just want to highlight that with my background and experience, I clearly also understand besides the demand drivers, also the supply drivers. So, you know, when you do trade, when you're active in the markets, you see that sometimes markets correct. And that's why, of course, to have robust projects which are profitable on the average, but also are able then to to handle the cyclicality and the the valleys of the commodities is important. And, that is one of the characteristics I really like with ATOM's Paraguay project.

17:57 The other side of that story, of course, is that there is market driven opportunities, and the fertilizer world, you know, can be split between what is supply driven, what is commodity driven standard products like urea, which is the the the most traded fertilizer, and then more premium specialties like nitrogen liquids that would go for fruit, vegetables, where there are quite different premiums.

18:31 And whether you are, you know, on the picture, whether you are in the Broadacre, in the middle of Kansas or if you are producing tulipans in in Netherlands, obviously, it's quite different sales prospects. And and this is why I also think when we are now in Paraguay, we are very well positioned towards some attractive premium market segments also on the agricultural side. So the figure on the right shows different products,

19:06 different agriculture, if you like. The sustainability part, you know, the green button or the green triangle is where we are. And over time, definitely, no no question, we will be able to have considerable premium margins. So you could use this figure also to show what is gray ammonia produced even, you know, with natural gas or or hydrocarbons, blue ammonia, which has less emission, but still is questionable in in certain manners. And our green ammonia, which is coming through, a quite straightforward technology. And as, you know, the the yellow one could be organic ammonia produced by microbes, which is having probably the highest netback because it can be used in organic industry or organic agriculture.

20:03 But what we see going forward is that the sustainability labels are even going to be more important than the organic labels. I I've seen different prices here per ton of nitrogen. You know, the last year, we would probably be around $1,000 per ton nitrogen for the lower part, For the green part or or for the blue the green part, if it's a premium liquid product, we could see that being 10 times higher. And if you were in the organic segment, it could be two to three times higher. So quite big differentiations on how you position. But what is important, of course, is that we have optionality.

20:50 So the Paraguayan project is is not one thing, is what not one concept. It's a lot of opportunities. And I must say myself, obviously, we can

21:04 supply trucks, ammonia, dedicated ammonia trucks to neighboring industry that has a requirement for ammonia as a raw material. We can even in a scaled up scenario, first phase, second phase, export ammonia from the river mouth in for the South, you know, by going barges and dedicated export tanks. But I must say also what really attracts me now and where I think the key focus for ATOM is then to focus local agriculture in Paraguay. And, you know, we are also at the entrance of southern part of Brazil.

21:50 And here, we can upgrade the ammonia into different fertilizers. You know, we can produce and transport dry fertilizers instead of having liquids. And the key point is optionality. Yes. It's going to be a simple solution, but it's also very clear that that flexibility is going to be very important for ATOM going forward.

22:14 So why? Well, Brazil, as a reference, this is showing the fertilizer imports into Brazil. There is consumption of around 45,000,000 tons and import of 39,000,000 tons. So you see when Brazil is a you know, providing 20 to 25% of the calories to the world relying on 90% import on the nitrogen, this is itself not sustainable. So they like to have better self sufficiency, Paraguay, the same way, you know, importing 100% of the fertilizers, exporting 80% of their agricultural produce.

23:02 So this is why to be in the inland in in South America actually is a quite

23:09 interesting position to have. So showing you a couple of more slides there, see nitrogen is particularly important. Russia being the biggest supplier, exporter today of nitrogen into Mircosur, Brazil, and Paraguay, and Argentina. And as we also see on the left side, we see more sugarcane. We see more bioethanol where you use nitrates. So these are then certainly adding to the

23:41 growth potential, the interesting business case that ATOM has. So that was my short intro. So on fertilizer perspectives, I'll hand it back to you, Olivier. Thank you, Terry. And and, actually, I'll I'll I'll mention there's a there's a couple of questions which came up, as as you were discussing. So, clearly, people have been engaged, so thank you for that, everyone. So just to I'll I'll just go quickly so we can move on to the q and a. But so as a reminder, so this is a slide really about Vieita. And and what you are seeing on this slide is the little x the Red Square is the land that we bought just across the Little Green Square, which is Andes substation of electricity provider.

24:29 The the bigger, let's say, red circles show you the different industrial clusters where you would have your fertilizer offtakers. So what you are seeing in in the little circle is basically the first draft from Orbas on the Vieita plant. The big green building is where you house all of the electrolyzers. The white towers are essentially the air separation units, which then going into the ammonia loop. And on the top right, the two large storage facility for ammonia.

25:04 Clearly, as you heard earlier, it's not just about looking at ammonia itself, but being able to go down the value chain of fertilizers where you can actually increase your revenue depending on the products that you are going for. So as I mentioned earlier, the project is completely on track, and and so we're pretty excited to see how how we are essentially progressing and delivering as as we said we would. And that at the moment, we are pretty much in the middle as well of the financing engagement as we're getting prepared to release the information memo package to the prospective lenders and asset level investors for Vieita.

25:51 Phase two of Iguazu, which is 300 megawatt, if you go to Ande's website, you will see actually Ande plan of development over the next few years. You know, they're going to invest nearly over $1,000,000,000 of of capital across their assets, including transmission line, upgrading their turbines. So just to show that Ande is also making a lot of investments ensuring the reliance of the power supply and increasing the use of power domestically. A final point is also. So Ande has Power has now made the last repayment for other for its it itaipu loan, which is the thirty year loan that Paraguay was repaying back into Brazil to to fund the CapEx of the project, and that's going to obviously create a lot of financial and fiscal freedom for Paraguay, for Ande to invest more across the power system, which will then create more opportunities and also keep the power prices at a low level, which will keep us competitive.

26:59 As a reminder, the price of power represents about 70% of

27:03 the total cost of a project just the same way that the price of gas represents 70 to 90% of the cost for gray ammonia. We're also progressing on the mobility side. In here in this picture, you are seeing the CPH two electrolyzer, which is currently being built for mobility. This is a picture also where you see the management team of Andy who came to do a a visit, which was both a technical visit to discuss about the time of the project, but also seeing what was going on on the mobility side. And the expectation is that, you know, we will be generating, obviously, small scale hydrogen for mobility by the end of this year, and it's a good test run as well for us as to to as we're going to be importing a fair amount of material for the bigger project.

27:59 So the Costa Rica joint venture of NAC, the National Ammonia Corporation, was announced earlier this year. And and this is essentially we're joining up forces with a regional developer of Central America called Cavendish. Cavendish is backed by the Purdy Group Purdy Group. Sorry. It's it's an automotive group making over $400,000,000 of revenue a year, which had a green energy arm. So they have been operating cars and hydrogen fueling station, but they didn't have any experience around the agri side. And in Costa Rica, in particular, the, this is a country which, where where agriculture is, the third largest pan of the economy.

28:44 They have to import all of the fertilizer. It's also a place where you have over 99% of renewable energy. So the idea for us is to leverage all of the lessons learned as well as the engineering lessons learned with Vieita to be able to accelerate a project of hopefully roughly the same size as Vieita so that we can pretty much copy paste in Paraguay from Paraguay into Costa Rica as our first project. So at the moment, we are continuing to progress the technical and commercial discussions. And, hopefully, we will be able to share some announcements over the coming month. For Iceland, so for for those of you who have been here since since day one, obviously, was supposed to get to final investment decision on the first phase of about 30 megawatt by the end of this year. The crisis of Ukraine has delayed things, and we've been pretty open as consistently around about this with the green aluminum sector asking for a lot more power from from the grid in Iceland.

29:52 So it has put pressure on the electricity price. So we continue to have very strong discussion with the government, with the greenfield team. We're actually making progress as well on the shipping area because as far as we are concerned, is green shipping is really the growth opportunity for Iceland. So this project still continues. It's still clearly for us. It makes very little commercial sense to sign up to a a power purchase agreement where the price will be a little too high and not be as competitive as it could be. So this is a a process which is still being matured, and we are still very much involved in in Iceland with. So for us, also when we're looking at other opportunities, and this is a slide that some of you have would have seen before, What are we looking for? We're looking for geographies where the government is fully aligned in pushing the green economy. You don't want to be putting projects where government doesn't want to do these types of projects, where there is green renewable potential. If it's not already there, how how cheap and how quickly can you build it, and where you also have a strong domestic agricultural sector. So you have your demand very close to you.

31:02 One of the, like, at any infrastructure investments, you want to reduce the amount of risk that you cannot control. And although today, you know, the green hydrogen, the green ammonia economy is growing extremely fast, the reality is there are still a number of discussions which are being had. There are a number of investments which still to be made, for example, in the Port Of Rotterdam where the ambitions of Europe to import large quantities of hydrogen or ammonia are great, but the facilities are not yet there. Right? So you need if we're gonna be producing a product quickly, we need to have a market very quickly because speed is what gives us the most advantage as the economy grows extremely fast. So this is the the slide where we show what we have achieved and what's the future outlook. So as as we discussed earlier, so 2021 December twenty twenty one thirty first, this is when we listed. So we've achieved quite a bit since, especially on the.

31:58 We are continuing, we are very much on track as far as goes and as far as the build out. And then after 2025, you know, looking at how can we expand Vieta as well when it comes to. So we are hopeful that we will get to a power purchase agreement fully signed this year and so that we can start the engineering and design, which will enable us to start production around the end of twenty twenty six. And when it comes to Iceland and Costa Rica, so our we have obviously JV with Green Fuel where we have 75% of Green Fuel. We have creating NAC in just a couple of months ago where we have 50% of NAC, and then it's all of the work about securing our first power purchase agreement and then starting FEED to get into FID.

32:49 So that is the end of the presentation, and then I will move on to the q and a. Olivier, that's great. And Terry as well, thank you very much indeed for your presentation this afternoon. If I may, I will just bring up your cameras there. Ladies and gentlemen, please do continue to submit your questions just by using the q and a tab that's situated on the top right hand corner of your screen. But just while the team take a few moments to review those questions that were submitted already, I would like to remind you that a recording of this presentation along with a copy of the slides and the published q and a can be accessed via your investor dashboard. Olivier, Terry, we did receive a number of pre submitted questions ahead of today's event. And as you can see there in the q and a tab, we've also received a number of questions throughout your presentation this afternoon as well. So firstly, thank you to all of those on the call for taking the time to submit their questions. And, guys, if I could just hand back to you to respond to those questions where it's appropriate to do so, and then I'll pick up from you at the end. Thank you.

33:46 Sure. Thank you very much. So I'll start with a couple. Maybe I'll start with some of the technical one, and and I'll let Thierry talk about the market ones. So one of them was, okay, electroly electrolyzer prices and lead time are still not looking favorable. How are we combating this? So we have used we are using baseload hydropower, which allows us to use alkaline technology, which is, you know, more than 80 years old, very well proven, because we don't have some of the restrictions that if we were using solar and wind, we would have because of the intermittency and variability of that power. And what we are seeing is, number one, obviously, because it's a very mature technology, there is a lot of capacity out there.

34:35 And the the other side is because we are essentially getting ready to order them this year, and and we have already gone through a first round of on the, electrolyzer costing with, Orbas and Gasalle. We are in a very good place because a number of projects have been delayed, and they made a fair amount of promises where clearly with a very fast rising cost of power in Europe, especially, has delayed a number of projects where no amount of subsidy will be able to, to alleviate the fact that in some places, power is over $250 a megawatt whilst our cost of power is in the low thirties. So we have both the fact that we can use existing tech using large existing manufacturing capacity at a point in time and ready to order whilst other projects are seeing a fair amount of delay.

35:30 The there was one question on update on Costa Rica. Is it a domestic play or an export opportunity? As we expressed for us, we always start by looking at what is the domestic play. In Iceland, in the end, it's really a domestic play for ammonia for shipping. When it comes to when it comes to Paraguay, it's really you are in the middle of the world's largest market for fertilizer. And when it comes to Costa Rica, it's also a very strong domestic, play, which is also close to, Mexico and North America for export. But you also have the advantage by being you know, have access to both coasts. So you could export either to the Asian market or to the European market. So this is really, you know, this is really some of the, let's call them, advantages that you are able to optimize the market and possibly make Terry's work a little bit harder, as he is chasing the absolute most premium, that he can get.

36:28 There was one question as well on the NEOM project. So some of you may know in Saudi Arabia, you have what the project called NEOM City, which is backed by the Saudi state. And in here is a green hydrogen, green ammonia export project led by Aqua and Air Products. And that project has just announced FID, so final investment decision, just two week ago. It's an $8,000,000,000 project where the offtake is sold to Air Products and going into Europe. So that's just an expression to say that actually, you know, very large projects are getting done, and the cost of this project is also due to the fact that they have to build their own power generation, which we don't have. We are buying existing excess power.

37:14 So it's just showing how quickly that market is being created. Clearly, being the state of Saudi Arabia helps you do things at a much, much larger scale, but it really shows you that if we can move fast, because we will be producing faster earlier than anybody else, puts us into a really good, position. I believe there was another question, as I try to find it. Apologies. I'm trying sorry. I'm just trying to find it. It's little bit I think there was a look. Well, I guess, I must have. Well, I I cannot find it at the moment.

38:00 Apologies. So there was another question, which is the last couple of years, ammonia prices at over $800 a ton made the economics of green hydrogen ammonia quite appealing. How do the economic look when falling prices are getting closer to $500 a ton again? And so I think this is just both I'll I'll answer the commercial, and then I'll let Terry take over the, you know, the the actually specific aspect of it. So because our cost of power is very, very competitive, we remain very competitive at, you know, at around $500 a ton compared to the rest of the market, remembering that we are in places which have to import. So the the price of Saudi may be the price of Saudi gray ammonia. The reality is if you add a fair amount of logistic cost and by the time it gets there and it pays all the taxes, we will have a a natural advantage.

38:52 But then, of course, there's a question of premium of gray versus green, which is proving up quite quite quickly. But then, Terry, I'll I'll pick up I'll I'll ping it back to you as you had presented earlier showing some of the volatility and and the linkages to to gas price and global prices. Thanks, Olivia. So I I think it's a little like when when you see the ammonia markets, the nitrogen potash prices going sky high in 2022, Europe ammonia prices selling at $1,250 per ton. It's natural that you have corrections. So this is also how the commodities like in pneumonia and urea is is is trader supply driven.

39:44 So when you come from a high, you you don't go down to an average, then you go down to a low before you come back and and find your average pricing for a situation or reality again. So I I think it's it's you will always see these swings. What is important to see is the fundamentals when it cost to comes to cost of production and what is required, for instance, in Europe to understand the the ETS, the CBAM, you know, the the the tax how how the the carbon is going to be taxed. That's what we are busy doing as well, of course. So we we can see that our robust cost base, you know, can be positioned clearly than in that attractive scenario.

40:35 Thank you, Terry. And, actually, it it also ties into to an extent of, you know, the the fact that us being able to produce faster enables us to take, let's say, most of the premium. And there's been a fair amount of discussion around, well, if 30% of the world's ammonia comes from Russia better versus Ukraine, what happens when, you know, Ukraine either you know, the Ukrainian conflict, hopefully stops? I think the reality is this has created long lasting damages to the entire ammonia industry as well, and we are seeing a number of of ammonia factories in Europe being shut down indefinitely. So you will see a very strong move into the prices, you know, not only the gray. I mean, obviously, green green ones are maturing very fast. And as we are seeing the demand move on green, we will benefit from that. But also on the gray side, the number of supplies being taken out of the market indefinitely will will also play a significant role.

41:41 And to that extent, it links to Chris H's question saying it will take some time before you are making significant income. Until then, how will you be funding operation? Will you need more capital? So the reality is these are twenty year investments, like any infrastructure investment. And they what you are doing is you are building something which will generate cash flow for a very long time in the future. And if you look at the way renewable energy companies are valued, or even oil and gas companies are valued so for example, an oil and gas company is valued after you've discovered you know, you've made small, investment. You've we've discovered a large amount of reserves. These reserves have value as they will be produced over time. If you are building a large industrial capacity, you know, that you are what what you have is the value you are creating is not just the steel. It's actually all of the contracts that you have signed, whether it's the power purchase agreement, whether it's the the market uptake on the other side that you are creating.

42:40 It's also the optionality that you are creating, which has an advantage. And if I had to take some very, very rough numbers, well, once one business is very much driven on on future NPV, another business is also on on multiples of of EBITDA. And if and when you look at of evaluation of renewable projects, whether it's solar I mean, let's take solar, for example, projects which are ready to build have a certain valuation and projects which are just ready to produce have a valuation which is much, much higher. So you say, well, how, you know, how do we raise capital with in with in these scenarios? The reality is when the infrastructure investors that we are talking to at the asset level and the financiers to do who would who do the debt are looking at that future cash flow to create either the leverage or the incentive to invest to fund the project.

43:34 So as we've said since day one, and obviously, all of the management is completely incentivized, we have all put our own money at stake at the same price as the IPO and and as the same price as any other investor. Just to say there are no sweet deals and we are all fully aligned with the investors at the PLC level, we are trying to to make sure that we have the absolute best mix of debt and equity at the project level, and then we can leverage the fact that we are a PLC to be able to get the best possible deal at the asset level and arbitrage. So this is really the the financing structuring, which is ongoing, which is completely common in green infrastructure finance, and which is why we have the Inter American Development Bank, as I mentioned earlier, as well as Netex is helping us put the the financing package together.

44:38 So there's one submission one question for Terry as well. So why did you join ATOM, and how do you view the strength of the project compared to everything else that you have seen far? So first of all, I mean, privately, obviously, it's it's important to to do what you like to do, what is interesting, and and where there are changes. So so it's during my still few years of activity, I I like to see companies that can make a difference and make a change. And why ATOM? Well, obviously, I think there are three things. First of all, I think the the team, you know, the founder with Olivier and the team in general is competent and and switched on and and ambitious, which which you need to be.

45:34 The second point is the cost base. Always you know, I'm a practical guy. I'm I'm not a dreamer. I I've seen, you know, how things works works in the world and to always have the cost base and the the robustness is important. And thirdly, I I think it's the demand side, the market position. So when you are in South America, when you are on the in in the inside of South America, you will also see less cyclicality because, you know, there are industrial usages there, which brings less cyclicality and, obviously, the agricultural demand, which is very interesting. And as as I say, when you have the legislators that push different solutions, and then you have the food companies demanding different positions, I think the agricultural sector in going to be quite attractive besides, of course, the new segments that we see coming.

46:42 Thank you, Terry. And and, I mean, two questions that I want to quickly address. So one was, okay, what is our outlook for raising exposure in in The US market? So we know that with the inflation reduction act, you have about $360,000,000,000, which was dedicated into helping growing the green economy and especially the green hydrogen economy. As I mentioned earlier, Myrose is is on our board, and she has long standing experience in The US. But what we see is the first stage of that is really going to go towards blue ammonia, right, looking at essentially gray ammonia plus carbon capture to look at scale. So but we are looking at The US, of course. We're trying to figure out where do we have a space in there, but clearly 90% of our focus today is delivering VETA. Right? The VETA is is is is too big to to ignore.

47:34 This is still the largest project in LatAm, so it's clearly, we are we are being, you know, ambitious, but not overly so because this is what will attract large investors and large industrial players into our project. And it follows on to a question from James, and I'll pass on to Terry, which is, okay. What's the scope for export project from Paraguay to Europe? Is the entire production to go to domestic and local, or what happens? And, obviously, my my my my first reflection is always, you know, clearly, we we want to chase the absolute best premium for our product over time. But, I'll let Terry answer, you know, the okay. Where do we go, and how do we go about going beyond Mercosur, or should we go beyond Mercosur?

48:25 So I think, again, the the answer is optionalities. So it is you know, we have we are not depending on one market. So we have more so we have a portfolio of of opportunities on the market side. So obviously, green ammonia export to to selected premium segments that we see coming is is one option. We can also upgrade, of course, the product into different nitrogen compounds or or downstream production. But but then I think, you know, when South America is importing so much nitrogen, it's it's in line with gravity than to to find more local solutions if you go into the fertilizer side. But definitely on the ammonia side and some of the industrial products, you can also export.

49:20 Thanks for that, Terry. So there was a question from Nick. What's the scope for further expansion in Paraguay beyond a hundred and twenty and and three hundred? So, clearly, in a country which exports around four gigawatt of power to Brazil and and Argentina, there is a lot of scope. But we also have to be very realistic of of the restrictions and and the and the I don't know what's pressure is of the of what Andy's role is. Andy's role is first to provide power to the people and then use power also to help decarbonize the the country, which is why, you know, they've been investing heavily in electric buses, which is why the mobility side is important and using creating e fuels is also key.

50:08 We also have to make sure that, you know, whilst, yes, there is potential to go, you know, beyond the gigawatt, it's also ensuring that what we do fits completely with Ande's plan. You know, we are looking to we are today we have the largest power purchase agreement ever signed between a private company and Ende. And and we it's up to us to prove that we can deliver, that we continue to do what we say, and that we can continue to be a trusted party so that they increase their exposure to us. So as as I showed in a picture earlier, we had the entire and the management team come over into London to come visit with our advisers and our technical advisers as well, And as well as we have the local team led by Jim Spaulding and and also Juan Pablo, which and now we have two two more people as well on on the ground every day having discussions with Andy. So, clearly, it's it's it's a huge opportunity, but we also always have to be extremely respectful of one, the demands of the local power sector and also the demand of the agricultural agricultural sector because these are, from a political economy point of view, these are key projects.

51:26 Clearly, if it's the opportunity to help a country become greener in its into its operation and to alleviate some of the import issues or, let's say, a high cost to the local farmers, you know, you are becoming more and more important. So is there a growth for for the expansion? Yes. But first, we have to prove that we can actually deliver what we've been saying that we will deliver. And so far, we are absolutely on track. Two quick questions, which are kind of the same in a way, Terry, which is what's your feeling about the advent of of of cellular meat or or even hydrophonic phonics and and how it was how all of these modern technologies could affect the traditional market for for fertilizers?

52:17 I think good questions. And answer is that we need to be creative how we tackle this challenge. I mean, even vertical farming. So we need to we need to be much better at producing food than we are today meeting the challenges going forward. And and proteins are needed. And in order to have proteins, you need nitrogen. Unless, of course, you have soy oil, which is a different matter because they are fixies fixating their own on nitrogen, but but any other crop needs nitrogen to to grow proteins. And and I will leave the I mean, I'm as we're running out of time, I'll leave the last question to Terry, and I think it reminded me a little bit of discussion you had with with a large coffee producer.

53:08 But, Terry, are you confident that fertilizer companies will want your green product over the gray? And if you can give an example. Yes. Absolutely confident. I I think it's it's about the consumer and in the end the voter. So it's like us on this call and and the people in our families. I mean, everyone demand different solutions, and it is about health, it's about safety, it's about sustainability. So that is a drive. So and and also politicians will help that. So it's one of my points when we I referred the Farm to Fork program in Europe where where they are putting sustainability really high up on the agenda.

53:59 I already say that, okay, in the past, you had this organic agriculture, which may not be that efficient to meet the needs that we that we have on producing more biomass and calories. So, you know, can there be different labels? You know, instead of having organic certification, there is a drive to sustainable certification. So when you have the same labels on the food, you know, whether you produce coffee or or if it's olives or whatever it is, I mean, if you have the sustainability label, that clearly helps the the food companies position with the retailers. It will just simply demand different solutions.

54:46 Yep. Thank thank you very much, Terry. And and, clearly, you know, up until now, you know, it's been mostly the energy companies having pressure to go green. And now as consumers, we are asking for greener products. And as greener as consumers, we are putting pressure on food providers who are then putting pressure on fertilizer producers. So it's it's it's a it's a very fast evolving world, a fast evolving dynamic, and and we are doing everything we can to stay ahead of that curve and to make ATOM, you know, a compelling investment proposition. So thank you everyone for taking the time, and now I pass on the baton back to investor meet. Olivier, Terry, that's great. Thank you very much indeed for being so generous of your time then addressing all of those questions that came in from investors this afternoon. And, of course, if there are any further questions that do come through, we'll make these available to you immediately after the presentation has ended for you to review. So don't add any additional responses, of course, where it's appropriate to do so.

55:47 We'll publish all those responses on the Investor Meet company platform. Olivier, I was just going to ask you for a few closing comments to wrap things up, but I think you well delivered those. So if there's anything further to say perfect. And in which case, what I'll do, sir, is I'll redirect those on the call to provide you their feedback, which I know is particularly important to yourself and the company. So could I please ask investors not to close this session as you'll now be automatically redirected? The opportunity to provide your feedback in order that the management team can better understand your views and expectations. This may only take a few moments to complete, but I'm sure will be greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the management team of ATOM Energy PLC, we would like to thank you for attending today's presentation. That now concludes today's session. So good afternoon to you all.