Alpek, S.A.B. de C.V. (BMV:ALPEK/A) Q1 2025 Earnings Call

0:01 Barbara Amaya Soto, Good morning, everyone. Welcome to Altec's first quarter 2025 earnings webcast. I am Barbara Amaya, Altec's IRO, and I am pleased to be here today with Jorge Young, our CEO, and Jose Carlos Pons, our CFO, who will be presenting today's material. Today, Jorge will provide an overview of quarterly results and how our long-term vision fits into the current environment. And we'll move on to the other relevant events, which include more information regarding Alpex spin-off from Alpha. Jose Carlos will then cover the quarterly financial results in greater detail. And then Jorge will provide information regarding our outlook for the remainder of the year. Finally, we'll continue with the Q&A session.

0:48 Please note that the information discussed today may include forward-looking statements regarding the company's future financial performance and prospects, which are subject to certain risks and uncertainties. Actual results may differ materially, and the company cautions the market not to rely unduly on these forward-looking statements. ALPEC undertakes no obligation to publicly update or revise any forward-looking statements, whether it is as a result of new information, future events, or other ones. We express our financial results in US dollars unless otherwise specified. For your convenience, this webcast is being recorded and will be available on our website. Jorge, I'll turn the call over to you.

1:33 Thank you, Bárbara. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. During the first quarter of the year, and to some extent anticipated, ALPEC navigated a challenging market environment driven mainly by ongoing global overcapacity and decreasing freight costs. These factors are pressuring regional margins, particularly for the polyester segment. Extended maintenance periods at several of our sites also affected our operations, and increased import competition in Argentina further weighed on our results. Meanwhile, the plastics and chemical segment remained stable, particularly supported by strong volume and forward buying in EPS.

2:24 In response to the aforementioned factors, we continue a comprehensive assessment of our long-term vision and will be accelerating certain initiatives guiding our decision making. Let me discuss these pillars. Number one, solidifying our core business. In order to strengthen our operational foundation, Alpec remains focused on enhancing efficiency, competitiveness, and adaptability across our global operations. To achieve this, we're conducting a strategic review of our global asset footprint. This also includes advancing strategic asset divestments, particularly the former Beaver Valley and polyester fiber sites, which are currently being evaluated for real estate development for a potential land sale.

3:17 We're working on this and expect to share further updates during the second half of 2025. Second, boosting growth through value-added products. We're actively focusing on expanding our presence in higher value, margin accretive, product lines and markets. This includes evaluating plans to scale bedsheets and thermal form operations, both in the Americas and in the Middle East. Additionally, in the polyester segment, a recently developed PET bottle cap product is gaining traction in the market. While in the plastics and chemical segment, we are exploring higher value added products such as specialized EPS with superior insulation and added performance features to meet evolving market demands.

4:09 While some of these initiatives will take time, it is very relevant to keep nurturing them. Third, capitalizing on emerging trends. We continue investing in innovation and diversification in order to strengthen our portfolio and meet evolving market demands. For example, since its foundation in 2018, Altec's natural gas business has grown to become a leading domestic distributor in Mexico. And we are now preparing for its expansion into Brazil and into clean electricity. Added to that, the Ovento or sustainable biofertilizer recently received approval for commercialization in the state of California, thereby further enhancing our sustainable portfolio product.

5:00 And finally, the last pillar is prioritizing our stability through consistent financial flexibility. Alpec's focus remains on maintaining a strong balance sheet and maximizing cash flow generation During the first quarter of 2025, we successfully refinanced a $150 million loan that was originally maturing in 2026, extending its term to 2029. These actions reinforce our ability to face the current environment while still supporting future growth initiatives. Together, these four pillars from the foundation of our long-term vision We formed the foundation of our long-term vision.

5:46 With this, we are confident we will be able to navigate the near-term uncertainty and better position the company to thrive upon the gradual market recovery as new trends emerge and with the continuing evolution of the competitive landscape. Now, moving forward to recent relevant events. As you are all aware, at the end of the quarter, Controladora Alpec was listed on the Mexican Stock Exchange. On April 4th, the corresponding shares were distributed to alpha shareholders. And as of April 7th, it was listed and began trading, thereby making a significant milestone in our company's evolution. It is important to note that this transition does not affect Alpex's current operations or share composition.

6:36 Rather, it simplifies for corporate governance. Our next step is to merge ALPEC and Controladora ALPEC into a single class share structure, which we are confident will enhance stock liquidity. We are targeting the conclusion of this process towards the end of 2025, after obtaining the necessary regulatory approvals. We're actively working on fulfilling the requirements and will keep the market informed as we make progress. We're excited about this new chapter and remain fully committed to delivering long-term value for our shareholders. Now, I will turn the call over to Jose Carlos to cover our financial performance in greater detail.

7:25 Thanks, Jorge. Good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us today. Now, I'll go to our quarterly results. Volume reached 1.1 million tons, decreasing by 7% on a yearly basis and remaining flat quarter on quarter, reflecting softer demand largely driven by ongoing market uncertainty and import activity. I would like to highlight that while volumes remain below the typical first quarter levels, we anticipate a gradual recovery in demand throughout the following quarters. Reported EBITDA was $131 million. which included an inventory adjustment of 15 million, particularly from the polyester as raw material prices declined, as well as a 10 million in others, which was mainly comprised of shutdown costs from Beaver Valley site and reorganization and costs in the polyester business.

8:15 Alpek generated 126 million in comparable EBITDA, decreasing by 18% year over year, primarily due to weaker demand in the polyester segment and a decrease in reference margins. Now, let me delve deeper into the polyester segment results. Polling resulted in 917,000 tons, a 7% decrease from the previous year, primarily due to continued market overcapacity and a sequential 1% decrease from seasonal trends during the first quarter. In addition to this, operations in the UK side, and to a lesser extent Brazil, experienced extended shutdowns. It is important to note that these sites have already resumed operations. In Argentina, there has been an increase in import activity driven by recent market liberalization, thereby influencing local demand.

9:09 Asian integrated pet reference margins decreased to an average of $278 per ton, down 9% from the previous quarter, in line with our expectations for the year. In addition, Chinese integrated pet reference margins resulted in $138 per ton, down 18% quarter on quarter. However, US reference by exciting prices saw a 4% increase quarter over quarter, resulting in a spread of $206 per ton between the North American and Asian prices. That's 7% higher than the previous quarter. Thus, Comparable EBITDA was 68 million down 37% year over year and 32% from the previous quarter. The results of the plastic and chemical segment remained stable as evidenced by volume was 202,000 tons, a decrease of 5% year over year as there was a higher supply in the region, which pressured the market.

10:08 However, volume was 2% higher than in the previous quarter due to continued demand levels for the segment. Looking at the reference margins, as expected, polypropylene margins experienced a slight decrease to 14 cents per pound, down 7% from the previous quarter, with average reference propylene prices decreasing to 42 cents per pound, down 21% from the previous quarter. As for EPS, North American reference margins also declined to an average of 30 cents per pound, 31% lower quarter over quarter. Yet significantly higher compared to the same period last year. As for average reference starting prices, this decreased to 45 cents per pound, 21% on a quarterly basis.

10:55 Comparable EBITDA was 55 million, an increase of 28% year over year and 60% lower than in the previous quarter, even by the fluctuations in reference margins for EPS. Turning to free cash flow, in the first quarter, we experienced a net working capital investment of 57 million, mainly due to investor shifts, inventory shifts, given the trade uncertainty. We anticipate normalization to take place in the second half of the year, and we maintain our commitment to strict working capital management. CapEx totaled 30 million during the quarter, including 21 million in maintenance CapEx, and 9 million in strategic CapEx. APEC remains focused on maintaining its disciplined capital allocation with a focus on asset efficiency.

11:42 Thus, operating free cash flow for the quarter resulted in an 8 million, a positive result given the challenging global conditions faced during the period. And finally, regarding the company's financial position, I would like to highlight that we continue to prioritize balance sheet discipline. Our debt profile remains at healthy levels and we have no upcoming material. Net debt levels remained flat compared to the previous quarter at $1.85 billion. However, this was up 4% year over year. Last 12 months reported de vida was $609 million, resulting in a net debt to vida ratio of 3.1 times even the last 12 months de vida. We continue to implement measures to deliver and get closer to our target by 2026 as global macroeconomics ease and the industry works to overcapacity.

12:35 With that, I'll turn the call back to Jorge.

12:37 Thank you, José Carlos. Based on current market conditions and our internal expectations, we anticipate that some market uncertainty will persist, including trade-related matters. While the company is not updating its full year outlook at this time, it is taking actions to manage controllable factors. As we have stated, Our focus remains on improving our cost structure and enhancing asset productivity. These efforts strengthen our long-term competitiveness, positioning the company to capture growth opportunities as demand recovers and trade stabilizes. We will provide further updates if needed as macroeconomic conditions develop and visibility improves throughout the second quarter.

13:26 Bárbara, I will turn the call back to you.

13:31 Thanks, Jorge. At this time, we'll be taking your questions. To answer a question live, please raise your hand. We will call in participants in the order they appear. You may also type your question through the Q&A function. We will attempt to cover as many questions as time allows. Our first question comes from Pablo Ricardo from . Pablo, please proceed with your question.

14:01 Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my question. I have two questions. The first one is on I don't know if you can provide more details on the milestones they need to happen for the merger to occur. That's the first one. And the other one is on the polypropylene margins. I believe these 14 cents per pound, it's historical lows. I don't know if you can explain a little bit more why they're like this low at these levels. Thanks.

14:42 Thank you, Pablo. How are you? I hope you're doing good. With respect to the time of the merger, it is one of our top priorities to do the merger as quick as possible. However, there are certain milestones that we need to meet One of them is that we will need to hold an assembly for Controladora Alpec which has already been called and will be done in May. With that we will have financial statements hopefully approved by the shareholders and then we can continue with the next phase of this process which will be working with the Comisión Nacional Bancaria to ask for their approval to merge the both subsidiaries, which we believe could take around four to five months in total. That's more or less the experience that one of our sister companies had and that's what we believe could be done. I was speaking yesterday with some internal teams and they believe that we can do it before the end of 2025.

15:39 That will be our objective.

15:43 Pablo Jorge here, and I will take on the question on polypropylene margins. Yes, at the current level, polypropylene spreads of 14 cents per pound are on the very low side. Not necessarily the lowest we have seen in the early part of the last decade. Margins were hovering for some period of time around 12 cents per pound. But certainly, they are very close to the bottom. And the reason is in North America over the last couple of years, there was a wave of additional capacity that was brought into the market. If you remember, the markets were quite tight in the 2021 period and some players brought capacity.

16:32 Then the demand, you know, cooled down to some extent and it's been steadying and slightly beginning to improve. But there is a level of overcapacity that remains, so we expect to again to navigate a period of low polypropylene margins. Having said that, I'd like to add that polypropylene, the competition in this product is mostly regional as the feedstocks behind polypropylene is propylene and to a meaningful extent propylene is made out of propane. These raw materials are regional and we don't see consistent influence from formation on polypropylene.

17:22 And even at the current low level of margins for polypropylene business in relative terms as we benchmark our performance relative to the industry is in a very good shape. Again, the reason for the overcapacity has to do, of the low margin has to do with overcapacity, I just mentioned.

17:42 Perfect. That was very clear. Thanks.

17:48 Our next question comes from Taso Vasconcelos from UBS. Taso, please proceed with your question.

17:58 Hi, Jorge, Jose, Carlos, Barbara. Thanks for taking my question. I have two here on my side. First question, I'd like some additional color on the potential impacts you see coming from the terrorists in the USA. Maybe split this in two parts. In the very short term, how do you see the company positioned amid this terrorist? What do you view as the main risks and main opportunities in the very short term? And the second part, looking more in the mid to long term, if this terrorist continues, how do you see the global trade flow evolving? The second question Jorge, moving back to the cost reduction plan and alternatives, What and where else the company sees possibility to cut more costs and how would this impact the volumes EBITDA and or margins for the company?

18:52 Those are my questions. Thank you.

19:00 Thank you for your questions. You know, let me give you on the first question the additional color on On the tariffs issues, right, especially around the USA. On tariffs in the USA, I think you might have read in consultants and in public information that PD is included in a list of products called the Annex II, for which the additional tariffs, at least for now, are not applying. And that was to some extent a surprise to us because there's some manufacturing product like many others.

19:48 But we're looking into that situation. The situation is very fluid and we're working to resolve that situation. On other effects that we have from the tariffs is some of the feedstocks that we do bring into the U.S. are coming from countries that would be subject to a 10% tariff. However, in this case, we can address the situation by redirecting feedstocks with U.S. origin to avoid those tariffs. Those might have some logistics minor inefficiencies, but that's another, you know, string on another part of the story on the tariffs.

20:37 And the third one is that we import our own sheet from Oman into the U.S. Oman has had a free trade agreement with the U.S. since 2009. However, Oman is included in the list of countries where the tariff will apply, and that level is 10%. I think we can mitigate that through actions in the marketplace and other things. And we expect that over the following months, an agreement will be reached to restore the free trade agreement between the U.S. and Oman. So we are expecting to see that, although the timing is uncertain.

21:27 Those are the short-term concerns that we have. Over the long run, I mean, I think if the tariffs stay to some level, I think they will eventually benefit local production. We have significant assets in the U.S. I have to say also that in tariffs in our product EPS, The tariffs do apply and so we should expect to see some tailwinds on EPS. Also, everything that is coming and flowing between North American countries that are compliant with the US, Mexico and Canada free trade agreement are not subject to tariffs. So that's another López-Garrido, Jose Luis Cárdenas, Jose Luis Cárdenas, Jose Luis Cárdenas, Jose Luis Cárdenas, Jose Luis Cárdenas, You know, to recover and restore some competitiveness.

22:56 Yes, and on the question about the footprint, that's what we're looking. I mean, we have some of our sites are very large integrated where we make. For example, we have several sites where we make in the same location PTA and PTE those tend to be of larger sites. For more integrated sites with more advantages, or site in Oman where we make polymer and bedsheet totally integrated in one site, that's a very strong site. Although we have some sites at the same time that are smaller, older in capacity, you know, that those are the ones that we tend to look constantly.

23:41 and you know an example in the recent past we did show down one of our pet plants in the US and our fiber plant in Monterrey so we still have a few of those assets those tend to be the smaller assets in terms of capacity and if we do an adjustment in in those assets it will likely come with either at the bottleneck or increase production in the stronger, more integrated assets. That is a process that we do on a constant basis. And I will leave it at that level at this time. And once we have the if and when we have the very specific actions, we will share with you all as soon as possible.

24:32 Very clear. Thank you.

24:36 Our next question comes from Bruno Montanari from Morgan Stanley. Bruno please proceed with your question.

24:45 Hi everyone, thanks for taking my questions. I have a few here. First one, can you share with us how demand has behaved perhaps in March and April compared to the dynamics seen in the first quarter? So I'm trying to understand directionally where the second quarter is heading to. My second question is that in a very challenging global economic environment, including The chance of a recession in the US, which could also affect Mexico, would the company be able to divest from the available land at a favorable valuation? So a cash inflow that would make sense for you to leverage. And then if I may add a third one, when you talk about the potential for new businesses with bioenergy, clean energy and others, Would this move the needle on the results, especially in the next one, two years?

25:44 And could that also help with the deleveraging outlook? Thank you very much.

25:56 Thank you for the question, Bruno. Yeah, let me give you some color on demand in March and April. I think it varies by your geography and so forth. I mean, one of our flagship markets is North America, the US. We will definitely see an improvement in the demand in the second quarter. The demand in the first quarter was very slow, the cold weather and the seasonality. And in the second quarter, Again, there is a recovery to normal levels for the second quarter, so that's looking good. Directionally on Q2, so we would expect some of those volumes to improve. On the other hand, we expect to continue to see more pressure on ocean freights.

26:54 As you know, ocean freights for containers, which are applicable for competitive products coming from Asia. We continue to see the declines. They are reaching very low values in April, perhaps even unsustainable values. So a rebound now is a possibility. But that will be ahead when going into the second quarter. So again, demand certainly will improve in some of our Mexico-U.S. markets, you know, importantly. But we are still living with an uncertain environment. On the question about the recession and the impact on our ideas to sell or some of our real estate assets, I will ask Jose Carlos to give you a full flavor of what we're seeing right now.

27:55 Thank you, Bruno. I hope you're doing well. Yes, we've been making a lot of progress into how to monetize that asset. We have not wasted the last year in that sense, but we don't need to regularize and understand the situation, the market, the potential for development. We've also working on the environmental cleaning down the side. So we've been doing a lot of work in terms of preparing that asset for a potential monetization. We're confident that we have a very valuable asset. The demand for for such a land in the location it is, we understand has good expectations. So I understand your question regarding reservation. But to the other hand, we do have a valuable asset that could be very interesting to some of the developers.

28:48 So we will try to test the market during the year and and have a good idea of the interest and we'll keep you updated.

29:06 Yes, on the third question, let me just add one slight addition to Jose Carlos' response on the assets. The asset inventory in particular, it has the potential More for commercial and housing rather than industrial repurposing. There are already some zoning approvals that happened over the last year or so, last two years, that allow that asset to be repurposed for commercial and residential use, which is very important for the asset valuation. That obviously requires More and more workers, all the activities Jose Carlos did mention, but that's a key feature for that asset. And the asset in the United States, in Pennsylvania, that's certainly an industrial asset and that has been already López-Montes, and Jose Luis Alonso. And from the new businesses that we did mention in our remarks, I think the one that is going to move the needle is the trading of energy,

30:43 of natural gas. It has already begun to move the needle. It's now in a consistent, I would say, double-digit EBITDA contribution per year, but we expect that to grow as we I mean, we have a strong position in our sourcing and we expect we will expect to enhance our margins in natural gas trading next year. We're entering now into commercializing natural gas in Brazil. And now actively selling or commercializing electricity. That's that's just beginning. But over the next couple of years, we will see, you know, you know, contribution from that we will perhaps next year show as another segment. We will debate that for next year, but that one is already moving the needle. The others will probably take a little longer either because there are investments that we need to carefully analyze or the things will take a little longer.

31:50 Super, thanks for the excellent caller.

31:54 Our next question comes from Leonardo Marcondes from Bank of America. Now, please proceed with your question.

32:03 Hi, everyone. Hi, Jorge, Jose. Thanks for picking my questions. I have two from my side here. The first one is related to the guidance and the spreads, right? Two months ago, you released the guidance with expectations for Chinese PT. uh integrated margins of around uh $160 per ton right and the first quarter uh the average was uh a little below the 140 right so i would like to know if you could give us a bit more color on what has changed since then and what are the the the current expectations now for the remainder of the year and my my second question is uh regarding the working capital Usually I don't like to ask about it, but I think it is important to understand this dynamic this quarter.

32:56 This quarter there was a big working capital consumption, even amid spreads and volumes compression, right? So I would like to understand a bit better what happened during this quarter and what could we expect in terms of working capital release or consumption for the remainder of the year as well. Thank you.

33:25 Good question, Bernardo. Thanks for the questions. On the guidance on spreads, yes, the first quarter Chinese PTC spreads were in the 130s. You said somewhat below 140. April is shaping more into the 160s, which is closer to the guidance. Our guidance was around 160. But what follows next still follows uncertain. I think probably the reason why it did rebound a little bit in April, or some amount in April, is that with the oil prices coming down, some of the feedstocks, like paraxilin in Asia, also fell.

34:13 And that expanded the margin. So it has held there at that level of 160 for a couple of weeks now. But again, the level of overcapacity still persists. In the 130s, producers probably in Asia do not make money at all, and 160 would make more sense, but we want to see the current level to sustain for a few more weeks. I'll ask Jose Carlos to comment on the question on working capital.

34:52 Thank you, Leo. How are you? I'll start by saying that the first quarter was characterized by a strong volatility in terms of what everyone saw on potential trade matters. So we saw some of our customers and even ourselves gaining up some inventory so that we would protect our customers in any change, significant change. So we will expect gradually that inventory to come down to more reasonable levels and normal levels and that will be one of the key levers for us to release the working capital that we increased in the first quarter. I'll say that's basically what will happen and that will be one of the key levers to improving our working capital. Of course, it remains one of our key priorities to maximize operating free cash flow.

35:40 And we're not only focusing on working capital. We probably you also saw that we have minimal capex and focused on maintenance during the first quarter. And that's one of the reasons that we're one of the levers that we're pulling in order to improve our our free cash flow. So you clearly will see respect to see in the second quarter and improvement on the working capital.

36:04 That's very clear. Just to understand, on a year basis, there should be a working capital release, right? At least you expect that. Correct. Correct. Okay. Correct.

36:18 We expect to end the year with a lower working capital, so there should be a release below $100 million.

36:27 Perfect. Thank you very much, Jose and Jorge.

36:31 Our pleasure.

36:32 You're welcome.

36:35 Our next question comes from Alejandra Andrade from JP Morgan. Alejandra, please proceed with your question.

36:44 hi thank you so much for taking my question uh my question was more so related to your deleveraging plan now that you're saying that you might be accelerating asset sales i know obviously it will depend on the environment and the valuation you can get but is that something that you're hoping to close by this year and then use proceeds to pay down debt or how should we be thinking about the acceleration of those asset sales in terms of use of proceeds at this point thank you

37:16 Thank you, Alejandra. I hope you're doing well. Thank you for your question. Certainly, the leveraging is one of our key priorities. As we have indicated in various of these calls, our target is 2.5 times. We already indicated in this call that we expect to reach that target during 2026, and it remains one of our key priorities. Yes, one of the levers that we can pull is selling non-core assets. Jorge and myself already explained that we have at least two pieces of land that are valuable that could be, let's say, a windfall or an improvement to our leveraging strategy. We will do uh the best to want to for at least one of those two diversity tours to happen this year it's a challenging environment uh but significantly we're committed to working on that uh i cannot promise but the i mean requires that the market is there for these assets but certainly we will be working actively to to divest them Or in the case of the Monterey side, I should say we will make a decision what's the best strategy for that asset. I don't want to guide you towards only divestiture.

38:31 We will make a decision and analysis on what's the best value creation for our shareholders for that asset. So I don't want to misguide you in that.

38:40 And you would pay gross debt with any proceeds or it's more so you'll get the cash and then kind of decide what to do.

38:50 We certainly will pay that when any of the proceeds we will use them to pay down debt.

38:56 Great, thank you.

39:00 Our next question comes from Andrés Cardona from Citi. Andrés, please proceed with your question.

39:08 Good morning, Jorge, José Carlos, Bárbara. Following on what you were providing about demand, I would like to understand What is the level of the inventories at the industry level? How are clients reacting to this uncertainty regarding tariffs? Are you seeing any preference for local suppliers or are you seeing more imports from Asian markets as they, I don't know, may have a preference to build up inventories? I don't know. Any color you could provide there? And also, you talk about the Chinese PET margins into April. Can you share what's happening with the Asian and polypropylene EPS also into early days of April, please?

40:05 Yes, Andres. On the question about the inventories, I think as Carlos did mention, we did increase Our inventories, especially on the US side of our fence, because of the uncertainty of the tariffs, especially in early March, and some of our customers might have done the same. Probably more on EPS than anything else. I think in PT we're seeing, again, much better and more normal level of volume shipments in the second quarter, talking about North America. So generally speaking, yes, I think the value chains need increased inventories, some more on the side of the US because of the uncertainty.

40:57 But I would say things are now normalizing. We have seen also, again, more interest on domestic supply, even though some of the products like PET have been Included in Annex II, for which the new tariffs, at least for now, are not applicable. Again, the uncertainty is slowly causing customers to position with local supply. I mean, the prices and the margins are still very competitive, but definitely there is going to be a preference for more local supply. It is our goal to be there for those customers and capitalize our local footprint, especially in the U.S. and key countries.

41:56 On the spreads, I think the spreads might have also rebounded a little bit with the Asian spreads. The polypropylene and EPS spreads, we expect them to stay very much flat in the first quarter. and the Asian PET spread. I don't have the number exactly here, but I'm probably behaving similar as the Chinese spread. We'll share the data separately. Thank you, Jorge.

42:32 We had some questions coming in from the chat. I will proceed to read them. First question. Why is reducing leverage a priority still when our purchasing shares is much more accredit for shareholders?

42:53 Thank you for the question. Certainly, we believe that the current value of the shares, especially on I think I'm both on Controlador Alpec and Alpec. It provides a good entry value for the potential offset that we will have in the following year. So we are committed and we believe that this is a good value for us to be repurchasing shares. You saw probably that we were active during the first quarter and we will continue to be active whenever we believe that there's a good entry point for us to buy shares. And depending on the progress that we make on putting together the two companies, Controlador Alpec and Alpec Well, that could open the door for taking those shares out of the market.

43:38 That's something that we will evaluate later in the year.

43:45 The next question is the following. At the bottom of the cycle, are you minimizing fixed price contracts in both segments to capture the full recovery margins? Do you see over the coming years?

44:04 The answer for that question varies by product. In some of our segments, we tend to stay more exposed to the market conditions and move with the market conditions. That's probably more representative for plastics and chemicals. In the polyester segment, there are some agreements that tend to have a negotiated margin that normally stays for a year. In some cases, two years. But for the most part, you're talking about one year agreements. And that's pretty much the model of the industry, right? Again, in those type of agreements, do not necessarily fall to the lowest levels of the spot prices, neither they increase to the highest level of the spot prices in an upcycle.

45:07 But again, you know, it's many customers prefer formula type agreements and And the duration is typically one year agreement. So I wouldn't say that is changing significantly from previous practice. I mean, I see the point of the question that obviously we are highly interested in not locking low margins But we also don't want to be out on certain key customers that buy with these patterns on a year over year basis. But we try to manage that as wisely as possible.

45:55 The next question is, can you update us on the total unavailable committed credit lines?

46:03 Thank you for the question. Yes, we continue to have around $600 million of committed credit lines. They are not used and are available entirely for any potential emergency, if you call it.

46:22 The next question is, could you provide more details on the new added value products you are working on, as well as the new venture in Brazil?

46:33 Yes, I think the, as I mentioned over the last few years, uh, that's the last five, six years, one business that has matured for us, um, with nice results with, um, I would say no capital, uh, no, no, no asset investments require some working capital yet, but no, no Catholics is being our commercialization of energy in natural gas. I think in the past we have had good years, you know, driven by events in the industry that allow us to make, you know, some earnings in some periods. But now we are trying to reinforce and build on the margins of that business so that it moves the needle over the next, increases how it moves the needle over the next couple of years.

47:26 I think we have also over the last couple of years made research and sent some people to be based in Brazil. It's also a very large market of natural gas. I think we're trying to capitalize on the expertise. And again, we need to see how that evolves, but we're very excited about the move. We're already finding opportunities in that market to contribute with our know-how and bridge buyers and sellers into more efficiency and for us to extract some share of that value creation. So again, Brazil, we don't expect investments in terms of capital requirements right now or business definition is more trading and for the for you know to a big extent reaching the gap or you know between key suppliers and key buyers and again provide value to both of them.

48:39 The next question is what are the potential key up sites to your 2025 guidance?

48:46 I think the, you know, right now the key upside is, you know, potential rebounding freights that are at the very low cost, you know, some recovery on the margin. Again, I think we remain very active on how the tariffs, how they work in the U.S. evolve. That's again, that's something that is very fluid and changing almost every week. But there could be again some swings that could benefit us. And again, we are again doing everything is in our control and everything we can to make those things happen.

49:37 José Carlos, do you have anything else you would like to add to the list?

49:41 No, probably I would say that non-strategic asset divestiture could be one upside to our guidance. As I already told you, we're working diligently on that front, but it depends on how we can progress on that. So that would be one of the potential upsides to the performance of our 2025 guidance.

50:04 The next question is, can you update us on dividend strategies given the increasingly uncertain year ahead?

50:12 Thank you. That's a great question. Well, ALPEC has been known to pay a dividend consistently, have an attractive dividend yield, but also to be prudent and to maintain financial discipline. We will continue to be in that way. uh we will assess the performance of the company on the second half of the year and depending how we've been performing if some of the potential upsides materialized we could be in the position to pay a dividend so i i believe that in the third quarter we we can give you an idea of where we are in that front that was our last question in the queue thank you everyone for joining our webcast we hope you have a great day