Zumtobel Group (Vienna:ZAG) Q4 2026 Earnings Call

0:00 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the earnings call of Zumtobel Group on the Q4 and Full Year twenty twenty five and 2026 numbers. I would like to welcome the company's CEO, Alfred Felder CFO, Thomas Ehrad and Head of Investor Relations, Doctor. Eric Schmidtjen. The gentlemen will guide you through the figures in a moment, followed by a Q and A session for institutional investors and analysts via the audio line only. There will be time for questions from journalists and retail investors during today's Zumtobel Group roundtable approximately at 03:00 this afternoon. And with that, I hand over to you, Mr. Schmidtjen.

0:46 Thank you. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and a warm welcome from my side as well to our figures for the q four and full year twenty twenty five, twenty six results. As said, with me on the call is Alfred Fetter, our CEO, and Thomas Ehrrat, our CFO. Alfred will walk you through the highlights of the quarter and the year while Thomas will discuss the financial performance. After the presentation, both gentlemen will be available to answer your questions. In case you have not a copy of the report and the presentation, you may find both documents for download on our webpage. After the call, a playback of this conference call will be available on our web page as well. And with this, I hand over to Alfred. Good morning, and welcome, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for joining us today for this call.

1:38 The financial year twenty twenty five, twenty six was again a challenging one for our business. The market conditions and the broader economic environment remains difficult and were further impacted by, as we all know, the geopolitical tensions around the globe. In Europe, however, we began to see early signs of the demand in the new construction, especially during the fourth quarter. And however, the recovery remains modest. With the AG announcement in July on July 1, we already provided some preliminary information on our full year figures. But before we move into this, the strategy update and the financials, I would like to do as usual, share with you a couple of highlights what were driving us over the last quarters, including also here the first one, the Light in Building, where we, in the biggest light share fair every three years, we have been showcasing with all the three brands an impressive program, also according to the feedback of the Zumtobel's capabilities.

2:50 We were able to meet numerous customers, especially a lot of new customers, important conversations and develop new partnerships. And one of this is the collaboration with Legrand. So that's our third partner in the building infrastructure next to ABB and Signify, which we announced. What you see here in the middle is the upper bank, a typical refurbishment project where we really gained momentum, where it was a renovation package versus the existing products with a lot of control know how what made us this as a success. Penny, on the right side, is a test pilot. Typically, it's in Austria, where we have been doing a combination of high system efficiency, optimal clear control.

3:41 So where here, the entire lighting solutions is designed to permanently minimize the energy consumption. A very iconic project, I reported also one, and it's now completed, is this fish market in Sydney, where, again, the commitment on sustainability. The project minimizes the environmental impact through responsible construction practices and innovative energy solutions. And the roof here is an architectural feature that includes built in luminaires to provide the especially illumination after the sunset. We are very proud that we have been able to contribute here. And last but not least, a project, the universe the American University in Cairo in Egypt, which was founded in 1919, one of the leading educational institutions in The Middle East.

4:40 And here, third 136 smart classrooms and 200 laboratories on a seven kilometer campus in 12 building zones have been equipped. And here, Tridonic with a partner was establishing the network with 20 controllers, which precisely control and monitor 1,100 LED escape sites. For this project, Dridonic received the International DALI Award in 2026 in the best emergency lighting integration category. Let me now give you an overview on our financial performance in the last fiscal year. Thomas, of course, will go and then into the details. We published the group figures in our ad hoc announcement on July 1.

5:28 And compared with the same period of the previous year, the revenue declined by 5.2% from EUR 1,097,000,000 to EUR 1,040,000,000. If you look at the segment level, the big choices follows: Lighting segment at €832,000,000 while the revenues of components segment amounted to €266,000,000 The adjusted group EBIT at EUR 42,400,000, which corresponds an adjusted EBIT margin of 4.1%. Our Lighting segment remained stable in a difficult market environment and further improved its profitability. The Components segment, however, was confronted with the ongoing weakness in construction as well as the increasing pressure, especially from the Far East competition.

6:25 As explained in our ad hoc announcement, the net profit was significantly affected by considerably higher income taxes compared with the previous year. And here, again, Thomas will explain this in more detail later on. And in view of the slightly positive net profit of only EUR 1,000,000 for the entire financial year compared to EUR 15,500,000,000 last year, We, the management board, recommended to the Supervisory Board. And subsequently, we also make this recommendation to the Annual General Meeting not to pay a dividend. It was not an easy decision, but taking all relevant factors into account, we believe it was the right one for us. Looking forward, our priorities are clear.

7:14 Our operational excellence, a strategic focus and the profitable growth. And one of our central growth drivers is in a digital transformation of the buildings into energy efficient, integrated and intelligent infrastructure. This is also, as I explained in one of the last calls, the main reason why we are having these cooperations with the building infrastructure providers such as Legrand, such as ABB and such as Siemens. In addition, legal regulations, stricter energy efficiency standards and the demand for database solutions are sustainably changing our customer requirements. And so we are continuously strengthening our position in this market with our intelligent lighting solutions.

8:02 On this slide here, you see how we in the Zumtobel Group are responding to the structural changes in our market and how this strategy is already reflected in tangible customer solutions. The bigger picture, you know, these five trends are reshaping our industry from moving from product to solutions, including the sustainability, including the connected the the data. And we're all business witnessing this fundamentally shift also from our customers who are more and more not asking products anymore, but complete solutions. So the key messages here, we are moving from products to integrated solutions.

8:47 And this is not merely an observation, it's a direction which we are evolving our entire portfolio and the complete organization. And how does it look like in practice? Let me give you some examples. One is the value shift here in the data center sector. Data center, we started to be engaged five years ago, and now we are seeing and earning the fruits. Here, we have to deliver more than just the illumination, the lighting solution. We support our customers from the earliest planning stages with specialized lighting design, including solutions that are tailored to the thermally demanding environment of data holes. As you know, this data hole still with all the energy they use to cool this down are still having temperatures up to 40 degree in there.

9:39 Our portfolio covers here the entire family from the external areas and the data hall itself to the technical rooms, the emergency lighting and the office spaces. For us, this is a high margin, very fast growing segment in which we are positioning ourselves as a system provider rather than a simple component supplier. In smart and connected, this transformation is evident in the way buildings are optimized. Using sensor data, we help manage visitor flows, prevent overcrowding, and create the data foundation for company wide standards in the building environment, air quality and lighting. Our light monitor platform enables facility manager to monitor and control entire lighting installation centrally.

10:35 The next page, when it comes to sustainability and well-being, we let our actions speak for themselves. Our continued inclusion of Phonix Index as well as this year, the EcoVares Plutinum rating, which places us among the top 1% of the company's assessed worldwide provide independent recognition of our process progress. Product wise, here you see an example of the Avenue Luminaire, 68% recycled material, completely disassembly for repair and recycling and 80% recyclability and a guaranteed maintenance and repair upgradability through the entire life cycle.

11:24 This is circular economy in action, not just as a commitment on paper. With these products, we are advancing sustainability in helping our customers meet their sustainability goal while creating new business model, especially a refurbishment after the first lifetime into a second lifetime and automatically moving from a pure product business into a solution business and potentially with the business model also in a light leasing model. Considering these key trends reflect the strategic logic underpinning our business. We are systematically evolving our business model here from really selling onetime the products towards a recurring higher margin revenue stream generated through services, software and also data monetization.

12:16 And at the same time, our focus on sustainable, long lasting products and partnership strengthen the customer loyalty and reinforces our competitive differentiation. On Slide eight, I would like to provide you an update where we stand with the achievements what we have announced a couple of quarters ago of our efficiency program. As we reported in recent quarters, we have already delivered substantial cost savings. And in total, we realized cost savings of around EUR 16,000,000 for the entire twenty twenty five-twenty twenty six financial year, with roughly EUR 6,000,000 in associated restructuring costs. This then translates into a net impact of around EUR 10,000,000 in the first year.

13:07 And let me briefly explain once more the three levers. One is the lean organization, where especially in the big departments being in sales, we have optimized the footprint, reducing hierarchical layers, and this will continue also in the other departments. Second one, streamlining the processes. This is a continuous effort. One example is in procurement where we are reducing complexity and increasing out automation. This will allow us now to lower spending, improve our transparency and manage our purchasing process more efficiently, and that is now going on in all aspects of our business. And thirdly, the establishment of the shared service centers too.

13:54 In Serbia, Serbia, we have two locations, one close to our factory or in our factory niche and one in Belgrade for more the international jobs who need international airport nearby and Portugal. And as previously communicated, here, our objective is to structurally improve our cost position over the next four years. And by the year four, and that's here in the case 2829, we are targeting annual cost savings of CHF 40,000,000 to CHF 50,000,000 and plan to match this level in the following years. Importantly, around 80% of these savings are expected to realize by year three. Because currently, as you know, we are building this up. We are training the people. And once this is ready, we are transferring this knowledge from high cost countries to our global business centers.

14:50 Obviously, we are fully aware that these steps and measures are not always easy and that they also affect our employees. We take this responsibility very seriously and are supporting the transformation process as carefully as and responsible as possible. And as just said, the further development of our business model also required a consistent adjustment of our organization. My colleague, Bernard Motzko, who has served as a Chief Operating Officer at Zumtobel Group since 2018, will resign from the management board and retire by the end of September twenty six. Going forward, we will reduce the management board to three members and anchor operational responsibility within the existing business areas.

15:39 My colleagues and I are convinced that the measures we have introduced and executed will strengthen our company in the future. In this way, we are addressing the current challenges in the market. Let me give you, before I hand over to Thomas, an update on our components segment. As I mentioned earlier, this segment has now been under pressure for the third consecutive years. The revenue declined by 11% year on year basis, and the adjusted EBIT fell to EUR 4,600,000. We have we take this development very seriously, and we have acted here on that. As reported over the past few quarters, we carefully evaluated potentially three options: selling of the segment, a joint venture with a partner or a fundamental repositioning under our own steam.

16:36 And we came to the conclusion that the market is currently not prepared to offer a price reflecting the true value of our business. We have also not found yet a joint venture partner so far with whom we think we can run the combined business and create additional value. So we have, therefore, chosen the third one in our most value creating path. We are actively rebuilding the component segment by itself. Our strategy follows here a clear three part approach: keep and stabilizing our core business, the OEM business, consisting of LED drivers, sensors and LED modules, extended in new markets into new applications, so remaining into the lighting, develop also new business opportunities beyond the light.

17:31 And that means the following. If we keep and stabilize the core, we are securing our existing core business by rigorously driving cost efficiency. Extending the core, we are pursuing new applications closely related to our existing business. And one concrete example is our rail signal project, where together with a partner, we aim to refurbish existing signal system from halogen lamp to LED for rail networks with our solutions. And in parallel, we are strengthening our capabilities in and leveraging the control business. Developing new business opportunities beyond light, we are here identifying new business areas. As you know, one of the core competencies of Tridonic is power electronics.

18:23 So we are perfect in converting AC to DC in thermal management and especially when it comes to monetization for high end application. You see here a couple of examples, renewable energy, the general high power semiconductors, obviously, big data center with artificial intelligence, energy and energy consumption is exploding. And everything what helps to make this transfer of energy more efficient is saving cost. And here, Tridonic with its competence plays a key role where we engage with data centers with power conversion here.

19:09 And that is making interesting applications what go beyond the lighting. We're also addressing this transformation in on the leadership level. The previous CEO of the component segment has left the company and the success will drive this strategy forward as I just have outlined. We will keep you updated as this project has started a couple of weeks back and latest with the result presented in December. I'm very confident that this clear road map will put the component segment on sound and future proof footing with an increased volume and margins. So and with that, I would now like to hand over to Thomas, who will take you through the quarter four and also the all four quarter results in detail.

20:04 Thank you, Alfred. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Let me start with the Lighting segment. Q4 revenues in the Lighting segment amounted to EUR 213,700,000 and were 0.8% above the previous. Positive volume contributions were recorded in The Americas and the EMEA region, along with positive growth in The Netherlands and Switzerland. France, Germany, Italy and The UK recorded lower volumes as well as a couple of other countries having price pressure in the market. Adjusted EBIT in the Lighting segment increased from €11,400,000 to €13,700,000 Our adjusted EBIT margin increased to 6.4%.

20:51 Lower material costs and a decline in personnel expenses also contributed to the higher result. Slide 11 shows the Components segment. Revenues in the Components segment declined 8.8% to EUR 66,400,000 in the fourth quarter. The difficult economical and geopolitical environment led to declining sales and also still some price pressure. Adjusted EBIT in the Components segment totaled €400,000 negative in the fourth quarter. The adjusted EBIT margin stood at minus 0.7%. Lower material costs and lower personnel expenses were unable to offset the decline in revenues.

21:43 Slide 12 shows Q4 results for the group. Revenues in the fourth quarter declined by 1.4% to €265,400,000 as a result of the decline in the component segment. Adjusted EBIT margin increased to €10,200,000 compared with €6,000,000 in the fourth quarter of last year. Adjusted EBIT margin amounted to 3.9%. Overall, lower material costs and lower personnel expenses more than offset the negative impact from declining volumes. Slide 13. Looking at the adjusted EBIT bridge, we start with prior year's result of €46,900,000 The negative revenue impact totaled €44,000,000 with the decline primarily caused by price pressure, volume reductions and to a lesser extent, FX.

22:43 Looking at our COGS, lower material costs and lower personnel expenses had a positive impact of 32,400,000 SG and A made a positive contribution to results mainly due to lower personnel expenses. As a result, adjusted EBIT decreased to €42,400,000 Slide 14 provides you with information on our income statement. As I mentioned, our adjusted EBIT stood at €42,400,000 Special effects were negative at €90,300,000 They include restructuring costs mainly in connection with our efficiency program and the closure of U. S. Production site in Highland. For individual claims, minus €1,400,000 were recorded in the component segment and minus €600,000 in the lighting segment. In addition, the special effects recognized in the component segments reported in the second quarter include impairment of goodwill, which was €2,000,000 impairment losses to capitalized development projects, 3,200,000.

23:52 And on the positive side, an investment premium received from the Portuguese government of €1,400,000 After the deduction of these special effects, our EBIT totaled €23,100,000 Our financial results amounted to minus €12,400,000 and net financing costs amounted to minus €9,800,000 Other financial income and expenses totaled minus €2,500,000 and include the interest expense for pensions, obligations, FX and hedging valuation. Profit before tax totaled EUR 10,700,000 versus EUR 16,100,000 last year. Income taxes amounted to minus EUR 9,700,000 compared to minus EUR 600,000.

24:42 The year on year increases in income taxes resulted primarily from value adjustment to deferred tax assets in The U. S, U. K. And Austria as well as some nonrecurring effects. As a consequent, net profit fell to minus EUR 1,000,000. Earnings per share equaled EUR $0.03 per share. Let's move to the next slide, the cash flow statement. Cash flow from operating results fell year on year from €86,400,000 to €82,600,000 mainly due to the decline in sales. The change in other operating items amounted to minus €26,700,000 and resulted mainly from the reduction of provisions for pensions and termination benefits and the reduction of restructuring and bonus provision.

25:32 Cash flow from operating activities stood at 61,800,000 versus €72,300,000 in the last year. Cash flow from investing activities amounted to minus €45,700,000 in the reporting period. As a result, free cash flow equaled €16,200,000 versus €19,600,000 the year before. Cash flow from financing activities amounted to minus EUR 6,900,000 versus minus EUR 37,900,000 the year before. The change compared to prior year is primarily related to the increased utilization of the loan from the European Investment Bank and the reduced dividend distribution. Let me finish with Slide 16 and some comments on our balance sheet. The balance sheet structure remained stable.

26:24 The equity ratio increased to 43%. Net debt growth in comparison with the last year end close to 128,500,000 Debt coverage ratio is at 1.56. And with this, I hand back to Al. Thank you, Thomas. Before turning into our outlook, let me briefly reflect on the latest sector development based on the euro construct data what we received in June. On 2026, the forecast downgrade from Euroconstruct was expected. So the data confirms what we already anticipated in that sense, no surprises to us. For 2027, however, the picture looks much more encouraging. The forecast is stable compared to the last November.

27:12 So they are always publishing this date in November, then in June. And it is steadily reflects growing confidence that, obviously, the conflicts, especially this one in Middle East, is moving towards an end. But once that optimization sets in, we expect it will support construction activities across our market. The key headline for today is that the sector is coming out of the recession, and the numbers confirm it. The cycle has turned finally. With the recovery, we expect new build growth will take the lead from 2027 onwards, outpacing the renovation for the first time in several years. But however, the renovation remains a structural pillar, particularly in nonresidential construction. Why is this the case?

27:58 Because environmental requirements have made it nonoptimal. Building owners are not renovated because conditions are favorable. They are renovating because regulations requires it. And that makes this segment resilient, and it will stay that way. So to sum up, 2026 is as anticipated and communicated, 'twenty seven will bring stabilization of recovery. New belt will lead the growth and renovation will remain anchored by energy transition, meaning the direction is gradually improving even if the pace of the recovery remains moderate. With this, our strategic priorities remain unchanged. We are focusing on capturing renovation opportunities on one side and positioning the Zumtobel Group to benefit from the anticipated return in nonresidential construction.

28:53 And as the lighting industry typically lags behind the construction side, we are expecting that any sustained market recovery will translate into an increased demand for our solution within the certain time delay. This brings me now to the outlook for this fiscal year. The overall market environment remains challenged. However, as mentioned in the previous slide, construct activity is expected to pick up. With the measures what we have taken on the efficiency program and we continue to take, we have set a clear course to position our company for staying with growth and continued innovation. With a focused strategy and decisive execution, we are now responding to the ongoing shifts in our market and creating the foundation for a resilient performance in the years ahead.

29:47 On margins, we expect an adjusted EBIT margin of 3% to 5% for the year. And let me here be transparent about what's pulling in each direction. On a positive side, our efficiency program continues to deliver. The contributions are real. They are measurable, and they will support the margin improvement going forward. But on the other side, we are facing headwinds we cannot ignore. We see already higher raw material prices, also partly higher prices for semiconductors, a sustained price pressure in the market and rising wage costs. This is not short term nor is it requires active management. As we outlined earlier, 2026 remains a transition year. The recovery is confirmed, but it's still early.

30:38 We expect the margin tailwinds from our efficiency work will strengthen as we move into 2027 when new build momentum picks up. Planned CapEx for the year amounts to approximately EUR 50,000,000. And with that, we are closing our presentation, and Thomas and myself are now ready to take your questions. Thank you for listening. Yes. Thank you very much, mister Felder and mister Evertz. Ladies and gentlemen, we are now opening the audio q and a session for analysts and institutional investors. So if you like to ask a question via the audio line, please click on the raise your hand button.

31:24 If you are dialed in by phone, please press 9 and wait for the instructions. So I'll wait for the people raising their hands. We start with mister Steiner. Mister Steiner, you should be able to unmute yourself and place your question, please. So you should be able to place your question, Mr. Steiner. Right. Morning. Patrick Steiner with the POJH. Thank you very much for your presentation.

32:10 I would have two questions from my side. First of all, could you maybe share your thoughts with us on your data center business revenue share in terms of group revenue, expected growth rates for the next few years? And maybe give us some margin corridors. As you've mentioned, this is a profitable high margin business. That was the first one. And the second one is, could you also give us some more information on potential restructuring one offs baked into your 3% to 5% adjusted EBIT margin guidance for this year? All right. Thank you for the question. I will take the first one. So with the data center, our we are basically having, meanwhile, a very broad customer base.

32:59 So Microsoft, Amazon, and all these big guys are our customers. We have a double digit million revenue here with the data centers and participating in the exponential growth. So we are expecting, especially across Europe, but also into The Middle East, India, more momentum. This this the products what are going in are the high end products, especially the tracking systems. For example, our Tecton two, the flagship product, what we just launched a year ago, is one of this. And here, we are in the in in in the margin range between 4555%.

33:45 And the second one on the restructuring, Thomas will will answer. With regard to the restructuring cost, you know, we are not in a position to disclose how many restructuring costs we have factored in as this is subject to discussions with the workers' council and different plans. That's why we want to show our operative performance and not, you know, only EBIT numbers. But during the year, this will be clearer what we can do and what we can't do. Alright. Understood. Thank you very much. Thank you, mister Steiner, for your question.

34:31 And I am waiting for participants raising their hands. Mister, should be able to speak now and place your question if you unmute yourself. Good morning. Can you hear me? Yes. We can hear you. Yes. Perfectly. Yeah. Good morning, everybody. So just one question left on the top line guidance. Would you say this statement holds true for both divisions? Could you maybe walk us through your volume and price assumption for Lightning and Tritonic for 2627, please? Yes. So as you have seen from the numbers, what Thomas shared, when it comes to the Lighting segment.

35:20 Over the last four quarters, we have been able to improve when it comes to the top line. And with the fact that we have run the efficiency program and streamlining the processes, we do see that in the last, let me say, quarter and now moving forward, price pressure coming, especially for the big projects, which is always the case. But on the other hand, a relatively stable price environment on the Lighting segments. And honestly, we are now monitoring very carefully how the material cost will go and obviously also consider the option that in autumn, we will need to increase our prices here to keep our margins. So in that sense, the Lighting segment is more stable in terms of pricing.

36:13 On the components level, however, we are seeing with the oversupply here, the usual price erosion in the range of 3% to 4%. Also here, we see, especially from Chinese competition, who are currently in quite difficult environment when it comes to the bottom line that they have started to increase the prices. Also here, this is already ongoing. So Tridonic is increasing the prices to mitigate this price erosion. So carefully optimistic, it might be that over the next six to eight months, our prices on the components level will become more stable. And maybe I can add one comment.

37:01 For PCBs, we have experienced price increases of 25%. And one of our biggest revenue drivers in the component segment of about CHF 70,000,000 are LED modules. And material costs consist primarily of PCBs in this segment. So we will need to increase the prices as well in this segment, and this will lead to higher revenues. That's very helpful. Maybe in just to say the whole market, of course, is reacting to this. It's it's at the beginning.

37:47 Most likely, everything will be happening after the summer break, September, early October. Well, thank you very much. And we move on to the next participant, Mr. Satori. You should be able to speak now and unmute yourself. Hi, there. Good morning. Thank you for the presentation and taking my questions. I just have two questions, please. The first one, touching again on your guidance and broadly flat revenue and the three percent to 5% adjusted EBIT margin. I appreciate your mention about the efficiency and the higher raw material prices. But I was just wondering if there is a level of revenue growth or organic and volume growth that could lead potentially to that 5% adjusted EBIT margin, so the top end of the guidance there.

38:50 And my second question is that apologies, I've missed the first part. I have some technical issues. But I wanted to ask on the end markets and geographic exposure beyond data center maybe. So just understanding the more the most resilient if you would like within Lightning, education, healthcare, retail and infrastructure, outdoor and if there are any main regions to call out here? Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for your question. Let's see if we can cover this all, but if I understand your questions right. So obviously, we do have a a couple of very promising businesses, what deliver high margins, so what potentially could lead to the upper level of our guidance.

39:41 One, said already, we are benefiting on the data centers. Yeah. I also have to say in combination with our partners like ABB and Legrand who are heavily engaged in data centers, we are expecting that we have access to larger volume. The second one, we have a fantastic competitive product portfolio when it comes to sports illumination. This is really we are FIFA qualified. So this is really gaining momentum in building stadiums and sports infrastructure. This is the second one. The third one is our new Tecton flagship, where first time, we do have a product portfolio what is not only addressing the high end, but also addressing, yeah, let me say, performance applications when it comes to warehouses, industrial halls, who do not require a hundred thousand hours lifetime and 15 poles, but a good bit nine with a little bit lower efficiency at the fifty thousand hours. And we have the product here, and we are seeing a clear momentum what will help us to to to grow. It will be a little bit more difficult on the components level as, obviously, the OEM customers are also struggling in the market.

41:04 When it comes to territories, we are seeing nice momentum across several countries in Europe, obviously, the DACH region, but also Italy, also the Eastern Europe. Middle East, we need to monitor very carefully because we had quite some challenges when the war started in delivering, currently more or less stable. But, obviously, we need to monitor whether the investment, let me say, is coming back to the levels before the the the war. So I think that are the the key drivers what we have in the different markets.

41:51 One topic what we are currently suffering is the wholesale business across Europe. The wholesale business of lighting, virtually for us, not the big portion, is very, very weak, especially the two big countries, Germany and France, where the big distributors like Rexel and Sonne Park have more or less shrunk by between 1520% in the 2526 fiscal year. Got it. Thank you so much. Yes. Thank you very much for the questions. And I'm waiting for participants raising their hand using the opportunity to ask a question.

42:43 And if this is not the case, the brief information that there will be a roundtable today at 03:00. So ladies and gentlemen, you can use this opportunity as well, especially for journalists and retail investors during this call to place their questions there. And by now, there are no more questions. And due to that fact, we come to the end of today's earnings call. Thank you very much for your interest in Zumtobel Group. A big thank you to Mr. Felder and Mr. Ehwald for the presentation and the time you took to answer the questions. And for some closing remarks, I hand back over to you, Mr. Felder.

43:31 Yes, ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for listening, for joining us today and for the questions. In a nutshell, obviously, we are slightly a little more optimistic for this fiscal year despite all the geopolitical turbulences what we have. Stay tuned, and we hear each other again in September with our q one results. Thank you very much, and have a nice day. Thank you.