Picton Property Income (LSE:PCTN) — Post AGM Investor Presentation

0:02 Good morning, and welcome to the PCTN PROPERTY INCOME POST AGM INVESTOR PRESENTATION. Throughout this recorded presentation, investors will be in listen only mode. Questions are encouraged, and they can be submitted at any time using the Q and A tab situated on the right hand corner of your screen. Simply type in your questions and press send. The company may not be in a position to answer every question or receives during the meeting itself. However, the company can review all questions submitted today and publish responses where it is appropriate to do so. Before we begin, I would like to submit the following poll. And I would now like to hand you over to chair Francis Solway. Good morning to you. Good morning. I've been chair of PCTN since February of this year, and I'm joined this morning by Michael Morris, our chief executive, and Sarah Johnson, chief financial officer.

0:53 So welcome to our post AGM investor presentation, and thank you all for joining us. Earlier this morning, we held our AGM

1:04 and all resolutions were passed. So for those of you who voted, thank you for your support. Today, we also issued a trading and NAV update, and I'm pleased to report both positive total returns and total shareholder returns over the three months of our first quarter. The continuing growth in net asset value per share was driven by modest increases in the valuation of the portfolio and also the impact of our share buyback activity, which was funded by proceeds from selling office investments. I'm now gonna hand over to Michael and Sarah to take you through their short presentation, and we'll then take questions at the end.

1:54 Michael? Thank you, Francis. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us. So we thought it would be useful for some shareholders just to quickly recap last year, recognizing the AGM this morning. We'll then sort of bring things bang up to date, give you our thoughts on the property market, what's happening, and then really what we've been doing, quite a short snapshot, but what we've been doing in the first quarter of this year, and then conclude with the outlook and direction of travel, and Francis will then moderate q and a. If anyone is joining us for the first time, then just to let you know about PICTON, we're a diversified UK REIT.

2:48 We invest in the three core commercial property sectors of industrial warehouse logistics, offices, retail, and leisure. The portfolio is quite

2:59 heavily skewed currently to the industrial sector, and we have a portfolio of just under £750,000,000. The business was established

3:19 Technical glitch there. The business was established in 2005. We've been going nearly twenty years. We've consistently maintained that income is a key component of what we do. It's a key characteristic of property total returns, and you can see the rising dotted line on that chart showing the cumulative impact of the dividends that we've paid out since launch. And the colored shading behind shows the sector exposure of PICTON over time, and you can see how we've built out that industrial exposure. We have a long term track record of property level outperformance through this diversified approach. Our portfolio, which has an income bias, we don't do development per se, but has significant reversionary potential.

4:12 We'll talk to that later. We have an attractive capital structure with low leverage. Sarah will talk through that. And as a business, you know, we have a very aligned team. We take responsible governance, corporate stewardship, really important, and that's also detailed later on.

4:35 So I'll hand it over to Sarah just to very briefly talk you through last year's results. But just as a snapshot before we look at the numbers per se, we saw a positive total return of just over 8%. Our property level performance outperformed MSCI for the now the twelfth consecutive year. France has alluded to the reduction in office exposure, which was reduced by a fifth. We've invested heavily into our assets to upgrade them, ensure they're fit for purpose. It's definitely a more demanding occupational market, and having the right assets is absolutely key. We reduce debt, and we've also used proceeds to buy back shares.

5:25 So head over to Sarah. Thank you, Michael. We delivered a strong set of financial returns and performance for the year ending 03/31/2025, and that was, of course, across both income metrics and value and net asset value. We reported a profit of 37,000,000 and total return of 8.1%. And looking at our EPRA earnings, we saw EPRA earnings grow to 23,000,000 or 4.2 per share, which equates to a 5% growth,

5:57 and that was really driven by the reversion coming through in the portfolio and the recycling, which we'll talk about in a little bit more detail. From a net asset perspective, net assets closed at 533,000,000 or a 100p per share, and that was an increase of 4% during the year. Finally, we paid dividends of just over 20,000,000, which equates to 3.7% 3.7p, and you'll recall that we increased the dividend back in May 2024 of just under 6%. And with that increased dividend, we've retained a healthy level of dividend cover of a 113% during the year. And that's important to us to allow us to be able to reinvest in the portfolio and also for dividend sustainability going forward.

6:44 And, really, all of that financial performance is underpinned by our valuable long term debt structure, and we've also seen improving metrics across that debt structure during the financial year. So principally, we repaid our revolving credit facility and reduced our loan to value from 28% to 24%. We also reduced our average interest rate cost from 3.9% to 3.7%. We've now got a fully fixed long term debt book with maturities not until 2031 and 2032. And the value of that debt book at the year end equated to about 26,000,000, which was another 5% on our on our net asset value. That's not reflected in the 100p per share and would equate to a 105p per share if we included that value in our balance sheet.

7:38 Moving on to talk about capital allocation and our key priorities in the last financial year. This was a really big area of focus for us last year, and what we were looking to do here was looking to recycle proceeds from low yielding assets, principally in the office sector into other areas to enhance earnings. And we did that by selecting three office assets, which were the largest voids and repurposing those for alternative uses in the living sector and sold three assets for just over 50,000,000 of gross proceeds. And important to note here that those proceeds were around about 5% ahead of the book value at the previous year end. And those proceeds were used in a number of areas as shown in the bottom chart on this slide. Firstly, to repay our revolving credit facility, which was floating rate and reduce our gearing. Secondly, as Michael alluded to, to reinvest in our portfolio, we invested just under 12,000,000 during the year in capital projects across the portfolio.

8:40 And that's really aimed at not only retaining

8:43 our occupiers, but also enhancing our space, making making our buildings more sustainable. We make one tactical asset acquisition adjacent to one of our existing assets. But, really, towards the end of the year, we were more focused on the value in our own shares and recognizing the disconnect between our share price and our net asset value. We announced a share buyback program in January of this year. And during the period to the end of March twenty twenty five, we purchased 7,500,000 of shares at an average of 67 p. Thank you, Sarah. We now just have a few slides about the the property market and how things have been going this year.

9:36 I mean, clearly, the macro backdrop has not been overly helpful. Tariffs, taxes, a rule weighing on companies' minds at the minute. But I think the headline actually is a degree of resilience. And certainly for the first three months of the financial year, according to MSCI, you know, the wider market has seen modest increase in values skewed slightly more towards the industrial sector, and indeed, rents have ridden risen, albeit modestly, again, skewed towards the industrial sector, and that's very much reflective of the results that we put out today.

10:28 I think transactions are taking longer than perhaps they have done historically. It feels to us that supply of real estate is quite tight, but equally, you know, the the market is perhaps, you know, a little bit more challenging than it was maybe this time a year ago with some of those headwinds. If we now look to the occupational markets, I think the headlines here are, you know, industrial occupancy of 90% in the retail and leisure. It's 94. Although, I think the MSCI sample perhaps slightly flatters the retail sector as a whole, but nevertheless quite high occupancy. Office occupancy is definitely lower for all the reasons that, you know, have been there for a couple of years now around flight to quality, consolidation of space, working patterns.

11:29 But, actually, we've seen quite good rental growth, you know, looking through April, May, and June across all across all sectors. Modest, but nevertheless positive. And, actually, if you look at the chart at the bottom and step back and look over the last year or so, it's pretty much been positive across all sectors for every single month. And that's you know, it's not big growth, but nevertheless, it's definitely moving in the right direction. If we look at the investment markets, again,

12:12 positive capital growth flowing through principally in industrial, a little bit in the retail sector as well. Offices is where it's still being more challenging. Liquidity has improved relative to last year, but I think last year was probably an all time low. But we are starting to see some liquidity coming back into the market. And I think in our view, we'll start to see some stability on pricing as well as we've seen that those write downs that have happened in the in the previous couple of years or so start to come to an end. And I think, you know, that there are just some some green shoots coming through there.

13:02 If we now just talk to our own portfolio and the trading statement that we put out this morning. So firstly, in terms of the q one financial highlights, so the numbers here are to the quarter ending at the June 30 with comparatives for the two previous financial years. We've seen continued positive financial performance for the quarter alongside positive total shareholder performance, which is very encouraging. We're reporting profit after tax of 8,600,000 and a total return of 1.9%. From an earnings perspective, earnings are 5,800,000, and that equates to 1.1p per share. And that's in line with our expectations and will also reflect some of the premium income that we've received on these restructures, and we'll talk to that in a little bit more detail later.

13:58 From a net asset perspective, whilst the net assets in pound million terms has reduced from 533 to 530,000,000. That's really as a result of our share buyback program. And when we look at our NAV on a pence per share basis, we've seen a modest increase from a 100p per share to a 101p per share, and that's a product of modest valuation increase and also the accretion from the share buyback program. We purchased just under 7,000,000 of shares during

14:27 the quarter. From a dividend perspective, we paid dividends of 0.95p per share. We announced a further increase in May this year, increasing our dividend on an annualized basis, 11 to 3.8p, and we've maintained a healthy level of dividend cover at that increased dividend payment. From a capital structure perspective, we've retained our long term debt, but our loan to value has increased modestly as a product of the share buyback and reducing cash balances. But overall, we retain our RCF, which is currently undrawn at facility of 50,000,000, and that long term debt maturity still stands at six and a half years. Thank you. So the portfolio composition hasn't changed particularly from from March. We haven't made any asset disposals per se.

15:27 The portfolio initial yield is slightly lower because we've had some space returns as part of some active management and just some general timing of lease events, but the reversionary yield is is slightly higher. And I think part of that

15:46 reflects the change in valuer and some slightly more optimistic assumptions around some of our industrial assets in particular, which I think is particularly encouraging. If we look to the next slide, as I mentioned, we've we've changed value over the quarter from CBRE to Knight Frank. That was a rotational change due to changing regulations. And you can see, you know, headline very much like the market that I spoke to a minute ago. The industrial sector for us has driven the performance. Retail and leisure looks perhaps slightly lower than it was. I'll talk about it in a minute, but there was a very specific transaction that we undertook restructuring a hotel lease that that

16:43 slightly impacts those figures. We also surrendered some space at one of our offices ahead of lease expiry so we could control leasing from here. We've also seen some quite good rental growth on the industrial side that reflected that reversion potential I referred to earlier. In terms of activity over the quarter, slightly less leasing activity than perhaps we've we've had historically, but, again, maybe a reflection of some of the macro factors at play, but encouragingly, quite a lot of lease renewal activity at attractive rents

17:28 and rent reviews as well sort of coming up encouragingly. We've invested about 2,600,000 into the portfolio across nine key key projects. A lot of that relates to sustainability improvements alongside upgrading space to improve the rental levels achievable on releasing. And the rent the contracted rent, I mentioned the ERV has gone up. The crack contracted rent came slightly down much to these surrender transactions that I'll talk to you in just a minute. So in Bristol, just by way of background, we've flagged previously that we refurbished this space.

18:22 We started the project last year. We completed it at the beginning of this year, and we've signed a new occupier to that space in line with

18:33 our underwriting, and they are in the process of fitting out. We also, as part of that refurbishment, upgraded some other space in the building. We've moved an occupier. They expanded into that space, but we just had a little small suite come back at the end of this quarter as they've moved into their larger premises that will be released in due course. As part of our retail and leisure portfolio, we own a meaningful block in Carlisle. The lower parts are retail, and the upper floors are a hotel. That hotel had a lease expiring in 2031. We've engaged with the hotel operator and restructured the lease such that they have a longer lease going forwards, but a lower rent on that lease.

19:32 That, I think, is helpful to them in terms of overall profitability of the business going forwards. But as part of that transaction, they've paid us a capital sum. It's not treated as income. It's treated as capital, but a capital sum to reflect those revised leasing arrangements. And, clearly, we can use that monies for reinvestment back elsewhere in the portfolio. And then we announced this maybe a couple of months ago, but in Farringham, this is one of our larger office buildings. We have secured planning permission for a floor of residential on the roof of this existing office building. This is the first permitted development of this type in Islington. We're really pleased with that. And, you know, the next stage now is working out how we deliver that and in what form. But, again, you'll see on the coming slides, we've managed to secure vacant possession of the Top Floor of this building, which clearly is heavily interlinked with the delivery of that scheme.

20:50 So outlook and summary, I think the the the property market is in a good place. It would be nice if it was in a slightly better place. And as I said, you know, tariffs and taxes particularly are weighing on businesses, but but we are not only through this quarterly period that we're reporting on, but just in terms of general activity that we have sort of in real time seeing new leases being

21:23 entered into, and I think a recognition from many businesses that they have to, you know, crackle on and do business irrespective of some of these headwinds. That's leading to modest rental growth, but nevertheless positive rental growth. And, you know, our view is the asset values have stabilized in most markets. We're starting to see some positive momentum. I think we've probably seen now three or four quarters of positive property portfolio appreciation. But at the same time, when you look through to your asset values, many are below replacement cost, and I think that's a real gonna be a real story of the market moving forwards, the the lack of development

22:18 going forwards, which is going to constrain supply just because the economics don't work. Within our own portfolio, we continue to capture that reversion. We've got about 5,000,000 of reversion coming through primarily in more office assets from vacancy, and then we've also got reversion coming through from the industrial component of the portfolio where lease events looking forward will enable us to crystallize and capture that version. We're investing into our portfolio. We're balancing income and value. Carlyle is a good example where we've taken a view that we're going to accept a slightly lower income going forwards, but taking a lot of risk out of a particular occupier and leasing position, and that will obviously benefit from short term cash flow into the business through the lease restructure.

23:23 And, also, recycling lower assets. Sarah alluded to some of the disposals we made last year. That theme is going to continue into this financial year as we look to position the portfolio not just through lease events, but through portfolio structure, perhaps perhaps a sort of slightly higher yield through the portfolio that will also aid dividend progression.

23:51 And then capital structure, and Sarah has mentioned the buybacks that we undertook during the financial year and through the start of this financial year. We think they've been effective at conservative LTV, long duration of our debt, enables us to use buybacks in this way. And, you know, we've just had authority today at the AGM to continue to use them so that we very much see that as a tool in our armory. We also have a fully undrawn RCF that was refinanced during this period as well. So we've seen NAV per share growth. We've improved the reversionary potential of portfolio, and we are seeing the positive benefit of the upgrading of our assets that we're doing securing lettings going forwards.

24:40 So it's only a quarter into the financial year, but we're pleased with progress to date, and very happy to take questions.

24:52 That's great. Fantastic. Michael, Sarah Francis, thank you very much indeed for your presentation. Ladies and gentlemen, please do continue to submit your questions using the Q and A tab situated on the top right corner of your screen. While the company take a few moments to review those questions submitted today, I would like to remind you that a recording of this presentation, along with a copy of the slides and the published Q and A can be accessed via your investor dashboard. And Francis, Michael, Sarah, as you can see, we have received a number of questions throughout today's presentation. And Francis, if I may now hand back to you to chair the Q and A, and I'll pick up from you at the end. Thank you.

25:27 We start with a very topical question, which is how do we think the new government policy of banning up its only rent reviews will affect PICTON, and do we see a situation where more shorter term contracts will be used to get around this? Michael? Yes. I mean, I think, the headline really is that leases in The UK market have been getting shorter for a prolonged period of time. And if we think about our own portfolio, we have a weighted average lease length of around five years. So,

26:08 personally, I don't think this will have a big impact on PICTON because our business model isn't really relying on upward only rent reviews for growth. We rely on being in sectors where occupational demand drives rental growth rather than the structure of the lease. So I'm quite relaxed about it. I suppose if I think of it, two other points really. One is I think

26:39 it will make, I think, the underwriting of development slightly harder going forwards, which will, again, go back to a point I made earlier about viability of development and supply. And I think there might be parts of the market, different asset classes where the upward only rent review structure is more fundamental to asset pricing. And in the kind of core sectors that we're invested in, I think less so. So I'm I'm pretty relaxed about it. The thing that I sort of frustrates me is the lack of consultation with the industry and the sort of,

27:21 you know, very abrupt proposal around this. And I think, you know, it would have been better generally if there'd been a bit of consultation so that the market can absorb input and move forwards rather than these things being imposed without perhaps the thought that they you know, that should come from governments. And I suppose the question is slightly the sort of well, for what next? You know, will there be some other sort of slightly ill thought through proposal coming our way, you know, next month, next quarter, next year? But we we we have to deal with what's here at the minute. And for us, I don't think it's a big issue.

28:08 Thank you. Another topical issue. The question is, do we have any cladding issues we need to resolve? And if so, what is the estimated cost? Yeah. I think this is quite a simple question to answer, and it's simply, no. We don't. I think most of the cladding issues that that are making headlines at the minute minute very much relates to two things, really. One is the residential sector, and secondly, in relation to higher rise buildings. And, you know, fire safety is absolutely something that we are very focused on irrespective of the lack of residential in the portfolio, but but we don't have any provisions for any planning issues. And to my knowledge, we don't we just don't have any because we don't own the types of buildings that were either constructed using that type of cladding or or in any uses that would be affected by it. Thank you.

29:11 Sarah, question for you. Have you seen any increases in tenant defaults, payment delays, or requests for rent relief? I think, in terms of our rent collections stats, at the end of March, they were 99%. I think it's fair to say they're slightly behind that at 98% for the current quarter. I think it's something that we're proactively mindful of. We are aware, as Michael alluded to, of the macroeconomic impact on our occupiers, and we've had one one tenant or one of our industrial units with financial difficulties. But other than that, nothing nothing else that we're aware of. So I think we're we're mindful of it, but the collection stats from what we've got are still are still very strong.

29:57 Thank you. And another question relating to income. How sustainable is the current income stream, particularly from office tenants, given ongoing structural changes in that sector? Michael? Well, I I think there's there's two or three points to that, really, is, you know, office occupancy for the right assets is still good. Office rents, and we've seen it in our own portfolio are for the right space are increasing. We've we've you know, the letting I just alluded to in Bristol was a a record rent for the building.

30:44 But but there are structural changes, and I don't think it will be the same that that every single asset office asset will have a sustainable income stream. And therein lies the point around all their higher value or underpinning alternative uses that mean that maybe your income stream or your value isn't offices, but it's student accommodation or it's residential or it's hotel. You know? Or it could be industrial you know, the the the the point is owning real estate that has a degree of flexibility, but I would like to think that the investment that we've made probably over the last five years or so now, meaning that our office is in in London, Bristol, Glasgow, Manchester do have sustainable income streams. And I think that's that's reflected of the underlying quality of those assets.

31:51 Sarah, a question for you. Please, could you provide some earnings guidance for the coming year? I mean, I think in terms of earnings guidance, generally, that's not something that we particularly sort of talk to, but I think what we would say is we still believe that there is a significant amount of reversion in the portfolio. We did talk to that in some detail towards the end of the year. And part of that a lot of that reversion is weighted to the current sort of twelve or fifteen month forecast period in terms of lease expiries breaks and rent reviews. So that is something that we're working through. I had a pair of questions. The specifics and and then the bigger picture around vacancy.

32:37 Firstly, could you say more about the fall in occupancy rate from 94% to 91%? And then the more general question, given the ongoing developments and other projects, what do you consider to be the natural vacancy rate of the portfolio, Michael? So the reduction in occupancy over the quarter, and and it's detailed within the the NAV announcement today. We specifically surrendered some space, so that naturally reduces occupancy, but we've been paid for that surrender. So this is sort of tactical. And we've also, managed to engineer some space coming back to us, in Farringdon, which again, as I alluded to earlier, ties in nicely with the planning consent that we've achieved on that asset.

33:36 So in a portfolio like ours, I mean, we've got just under 350 occupiers. There's always volatility on occupancy. It's never going to be smooth. I would think that sort of, dare I say it, what's the natural vacancy rate? I would think the natural vacancy rate on a portfolio of ours recognizing you have a degree of tenant churn rotation, whatever, would probably be somewhere between about 94 to 96%. I think it'd be very hard with our portfolio to run it at 98, 99, a 100%. But it it but it does move quarter on quarter depending on what you're doing within the portfolio.

34:24 And I alluded to this in a prior slide. You know, we have to be thinking within our business about income and EPRA earnings, which I think was another question, and around value and capital appreciation, the balance sheet side of the business. And, you know, there's a question about ongoing development. You know? Anything that maybe requires some capital expenditure and, you know, repositions assets, those assets can only be repositioned while they're vacant. But if that's what creates value and drives your underlying total returns, which is clearly as a business what we are focused on, we have to accept that the occupancy will fluctuate.

35:14 Thank you. Sarah, question for you. How long do you intend to continue the share buyback? Well, I think as Michael mentioned earlier, the authority for that was extended this morning at the AGM. I think we've certainly seen and feel that the share buyback program has been accretive to earnings, which has been an area of focus and also accretive on an per share basis. So it's something that we're going to consider going forward. Thank you. And a question here that I think is perhaps prompted by the share buyback activity. Despite your best efforts, the market continues to rate PICTON on a 20% discount or thereabouts. Like other REITs recently, does the board ever consider leaving the the the listed sector?

36:06 Michael? That's a good question. Thank you, I the the question actually says, does the board consider leaving the investment trust structure? And I think there's an there's an interesting distinction there between investment companies that sit within the REIT wrapper, which clearly a number of the externally managed REITs sit in that camp. And there are different issues affecting investment trusts, particularly around cost disclosures versus a company like PCTN, and there are a number of others that are what's known as chapter six trading companies to which that doesn't impact them. That said, our discount is 20%.

36:54 When I looked on Monday, I think the sector average is slightly north of that around 22 where, as a board, very definitely not complacent that 20 is a good place to be, and we want to do everything we can to continue to narrow that discount further. But I think there's a wider market context there rather than it being specifically the investment company structure. But I think, you know, the the reality is that the REIT structure is a really tax efficient way for people to own commercial real estate. And quite frankly, own real estate that you can't own, people couldn't have access to as individuals.

37:43 You know, the the the average lot size in our portfolio is about 15,000,000. So to be able to get that exposure through a wrapper that has, you know, very little tax leakage, I think, is is a good structure, and I think that's why, you know, we're we're we're comfortable where we are currently. Thank you. The question here, if you were to make future acquisitions, in what sectors would they be, and what would the opportunities look like? Mike? Yeah. So, I mean, are, as we've alluded to, looking to recycle some of the portfolio this year much as we did last year.

38:33 And I think the way that we've discussed this as a as a board is trying to improve the overall income profile of the portfolio. And in part, that means divestment where divestment and indeed reinvestment where we can improve the underlying initial yield reversionary potential of those assets to position pivot the portfolio for a structurally higher income return. So the way we think about that is not necessarily well, what sector are you coming out of and what sector are you going into?

39:25 It's very much and we we were discussing recently about the, income risk within the business and the way in which we can best grow income going forwards. And those are the drivers, and we've been, you know, looking more recently at assets actually across all three sectors, but a key driver to future acquisitions is around underlying income, income risk, and income growth. Thank you. And a question here. Despite buybacks, why does the performance of Picton Property seem to be behind the competitors?

40:13 Sarah? I'm assuming this is sort of talking about shareholder performance and shareholder returns as PICTOR's track record from a property returns perspective is is particularly strong. So from a shareholder and share performance perspective, I think, well, I I think actually since the buybacks, the the share price has has moved Yeah. Has moved. And I Yeah. Might bother the the the pricing today, but actually, we think that buyback has worked really effectively in sort of trading at, you know, near 80p per share over the last, certainly, few weeks has been a really positive outcome, I guess, in terms of competitors. And Yeah. And looking at the peer group per se, we feel that that's around about in line with our competitors.

40:59 Yeah. I I probably might slightly just sort of perhaps just answer the question differently because it says, why does the performance of PICTN seem to be behind their competitors? Well, I'm just looking at something today that shows, you know, year to date, our share price performance is up 23%, and I'm looking at about seven or eight other competitors. And I could argue that it's maybe double or maybe triple some of those. So in share price performance, I think, actually, we've we've we've done very well this year, and I would argue our performance isn't behind competitors. I would agree, though, with the statement that our discount, whilst better than the sector average, there are still companies that are on tighter ratings relative to PICTON, and that's the point that I think we made earlier about a a continued focus to improve the the discount from where it sits and all the property and corporate level actions that the board is discussing will hopefully continue to narrow that gap. Yeah.

42:13 I think the share price has increased 27% from the January 1 to the end of June, which is roughly the period that the buybacks have been taking place. So that's another stat of note. So I think what's come out of that is that the board made some important decisions at the beginning of the year about buybacks. That that those decisions have had a real impact, positive impact on performance. But rest assured, we're absolutely not complacent. And I think that now takes us to the end of this session. So, thank you very much for joining us. That's great, Frances, Michael, Sarah. You have addressed all those questions from investors today. And, of course, the company can review your questions submitted today. I will polish those responses on the investment company platform.

43:05 And, Michael, before I redirect investors to provide you with their feedback, which I know is particularly important to the company, could I please ask you for a few closing comments? Thank thank you for hosting. Thank you to everyone that has dialed in this morning, and thank you for your questions as well. It's always interesting to see what are is on investors' minds. I think I'll just say that this presentation will be available on our website if if you'd like it. If you haven't had the opportunity to read our NAF statement today, there is plenty of color in that. And if anyone hasn't had the opportunity to read or or at least look at our annual report that is also available online. There's a far more comprehensive breakdown of all the things that are going on within the business to create value for shareholders, and I urge people to do that. So thank you once again for joining us.

44:07 Fantastic. Michael, Sarah, Francis, thank you once again for updating investors today. Can I please ask investors not to close this session as you will now be automatically redirected to provide your feedback in order that the board can better understand your views and expectations? This will only take a few moments to complete, and I'm sure will be greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the management team of PCTN PROPERTY INCOME, we would like to thank you for attending today's presentation, and good morning to you all.