Havells India (NSE:HAVELLS) Q1 2027 Earnings Call

0:00 Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Havells India Q1 FY 'twenty five Earnings Call. As a reminder, all participant line will be in the listen only mode, and there will be the opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand over the call to mister from ICIC Securities. Thank you, and you too, mister Aniruta Joshi. Yeah. Thanks, Sumit. On behalf of ICICI Securities, we welcome you all to q one FY twenty seven results conference call of HAVELLS India Limited. We have with us today senior management represented by mister Anil Raj Gupta, chairman and managing director mister Rajesh Kumar Gupta, full time director and group CFO mister Amit Kumar Gupta, full time director and mister Rajiv Goyal, executive director.

1:02 Now I hand over the call to the management for initial comments on the quarterly performance, then we will have the question and answers... Answer session. Thanks, and over to you, sir. Thank you. Good evening, everybody. Thank you for attending the call today. Hope you would have reviewed the results by now. We delivered strong revenue growth in the first quarter as the demand was resilient despite inflationary pressures and the uncertainties arising from the West Asia situation. During quarter one, a decent summer supported cooling products demand, although a delayed onset restricted the full benefit of the season. Given significant raw material inflation, we undertook calibrated and staggered price hikes across the categories to offset the impact, encouraging to see that the consumer categories held well and absorbed price hikes.

1:59 Each category showed strength, and we are positive to build further from here. Renewables business continued to scale rapidly with robust growth in revenues, leveraging sector tailwinds. From this quarter, we have begun reporting Renewables as a separate segment. During the quarter as planned, we significantly stepped up brand building efforts led by mass media with advertising spends more than doubling year on year. While this front loading of investments impacted the quarter profitability, these will normalize during the rest of the year. We expect the demand environment to improve further and have a healthy outlook on the margins. We can now move to Q and A. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session.

2:50 Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touch tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. The first question is from the line of Balasubar Mai from Aryan Capital. Sir, on the lighting side, I think earlier you have confirmed about ASP declines have stabilized. And how start pricing and volumes for this quarter, sir? Yes. As far as writing is concerned, we have said that the pricing has stabilized.

3:40 In fact, we may start seeing some price hikes in the coming times because of the electronics. But otherwise, generally speaking, it has stabilized and hence, we're seeing some value volume growth now in the business. Okay, sir. From the switchgear side, it's materially impacted by West Asia export disruptions. So I'm trying to understand what is the mix of domestic and international for switchgears? And is there any margin difference profiles compared to domestic and the international side? Basically, we have seen around two sixty basis point margin erosion in that segment. Rajiv, would you like to take this? Yes.

4:25 The international business is normally up 15%, but we vary from quarter to quarter. And that's why it has been impacted, but we are expecting this to rebound this quarter. It finally happens because there are no vessels going to that, but things have considerably eased since then. So, we are very confident that Q2 will see a good growth in the international and the overall Swedish Gas segment. The domestic demand has been fairly stable. Okay, sir. So my last question on the NEOFI side, I think we have seen impact on the margin side, whether it's if you could quantify in terms of product mix shift higher in terms of like a higher share of solar pumps, maybe lower margin versus other products and competitive pricing pressure on solar module market and raw material side. We could break down those impact on the margin side. And if you could also explain whether it's timing of the project side or is there any other reasons?

5:34 I think you're asking about Hinduvaal. Solar pumps still is not very significant in this. I think that should come in the ensuing quarters. And largely, it has been because, you see, a lot of there has been a strong demand on the panel side. And as you know, panels have slightly lower margin than the inverters. That actually we expect to improve in the coming quarters. So think renewable, we believe, is holding pretty well in the margins considering the industry scenario. And as we move more towards the consumer side of the business, we are expecting improvement in the margins on the renewable side as well. So we can expect in the H2, sir? Yes, that's right.

6:20 Next quarter. Okay, okay. Thank you. Got it, sir. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Natasha Jain from PhillipCapital. Please go ahead. Thank you for the opportunity. Good evening, gentlemen. My first question is, if I see across the major revenue contributors, which is Lloyd, ECD and cables, our top line growth has slightly lagged the industry growth. So first off, I want to understand, is it because we took sharper price hikes and therefore maybe lost on volumes? And if that is the case, from a very medium to long term perspective, could you call out what is the right mix between volume and pricing, especially given that there's intense competition across these batteries? That's the first one.

7:06 See, I think especially as far as Lloyd and ECB is concerned, this particular quarter was the quarter where there was maximum volatility and especially in the second and the third quarter sorry, third, fourth and the first quarter. So there have been continuous price rises, raw material price rises, we have taken staggered steps of price highs. At this point of time, sometimes we are inward looking and hence we took calibrated price hikes. We do believe that we have taken the right steps towards price hikes, keeping an eye on market share as well as the fact that we have been making some improvements in our distribution policy wherein a lot of focus has been ensuring that we do not unnecessarily load the channel and basically improving their return on capital.

8:09 So a lot of things were happening in the first half of the year, first half of the calendar year. But I do believe that on a long term basis, including if we take secondary sales from the channel, we do believe that we have done a very robust job of ensuring that we do not lose any market share or in fact gain market share. Understood. So my second question is on the ad spend. While it's highly appreciated that HAVELLS continues to be a consistent spender here, what's the ideal time frame wherein we can expect such aggressive ad spend to transfer to revenue and more importantly, volume growth. And on those lines, sir, if you could just call out the volume growth for lawyers and if we are seeing any brand full traction there?

8:57 No. I think, first of all, as far as advertising spends are concerned, basically, this is just a readjustment of our strategy between above the line and below the line over and between categories. So as you one question is whether this will get normalized. Yes, it will get normalized. How much it translates into volumes and values? Usually, advertising is a long term investment. And over a period of time, it relates to volume growth, value growth, premiumization. So it's not something like FMCG where it's an impulsive buyer. So advertising has always been looked at as an investment for a long period of time. And hence, even during the year, it will get normalized, but there was more front ending in the first quarter because of the seasonal products.

9:51 And what was the second question? Sorry. Sir, on Lloyd, the volume growth? Yes. The volume growth in air conditioners would be single digits, but the value growth has been higher because of the calibrated price hikes during the first half of the year. Got it. Thank you so much. All the best. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of from Kotak Securities. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. The first question is on a and p. So for the full year, I mean, last year, you spent something around 600 crores. Possible to share any kind of budget which you would have for the full year this year? And how should we think about this now going ahead? Do you think this is a new base on which we keep on growing every year? Or do you see this as a lumpy episodic kind of investment you are making as of now? That's the first question.

10:50 No. As I said, lumpy could be during quarters and all that, but overall, longer period of time is just a readjustment between the media that we've looked at. And maybe there is a slight impact during the entire year and maybe there's a readjustment. But as a percentage of revenue of consumer products, I think over a longer period of time, four to five years, we will be remaining consistent. Got it, sir. Sir, any budget you can share for the full year? Should we take north of $708,100 crores? Yeah. Somewhere around that number. Yeah. Yeah. And look, our our long term average has been around close to 2.7% as a company as a whole. I'm not getting into consumer otherwise. We expect that to remain the same even for the current year.

11:40 We'll have a Sure. Time Second question was on renewables, given that you've called that out as a separate segment, any aspirations or targets you'd like to share from so can we annualize the current run rate? Or do you think there are certain tailwinds from which are specific to 1Q? How should we think about this segment? I think if you look at renewables a bit more strategically, our focus will be looking into various categories of renewables, which are adjusting to our brand and distribution. So we are looking at installations in not utility scale of installations, but more residential homes, commercial and industrial establishments.

12:30 Also looking at more strategic inputs for the future, battery energy storage solutions, EV chargers. So these are the kind of categories that we are getting into where we can utilize and leverage our brand and channel. Sure, sir. Thank you so much. Thank you. The next question from... From the line of from TriNet Asset Managers. Please go ahead. Hello. Good afternoon. Sir, I have two questions. First, on the management has given the guidance in the last call. When In the last year, management declined to give specific FY twenty seven growth guidance due to market volatility.

13:17 So given this quarter's results, can you now provide a clear view on full revenue and margin expectations? This is my first question. I think if you attended calls for a longer period of time for HAVELLS, we do not give guidance for the year. But yes, the quarter start has been very positive and we are hopeful that a good resilient growth momentum will maintain during the year. Okay. And my second question is around your price hikes across multiple categories. So the company implemented calibrated price hikes across multiple categories to offset raw material inflation. So your contribution margin remained broadly stable around 18.3%. So going forward, the commodity prices remain elevated.

14:04 So do you believe there is still pricing item available? Or will future margin improvement depend more on operating leverage and product mix than for the five gs? I think that will be part of the initiative. Definitely, it's going to be led by the growth. And look, these prices have been increased to compensate, but there are usual price increase, which happens also once in a year. So those will always be undertaken. And then the contribution margin you're looking at is also a product mix. Do expect and we are seeing certain growth momentum in our other categories as well. As they grow, we are expecting to grow our contribution and overall profitability much higher than the value growth in the series itself.

14:52 So it will be dual play, it will be role leveraging, but it will also be growing the high growth categories as well. Okay. For clarification and I'll jump back in the queue. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Indrajit Agarwal from CLSA. Please go ahead. Hi. Thank you for the chance. A couple of questions from my side. For the cable segment, can you split out between the value and volume growth in this quarter? And how has it differed in wires and cables? So volume has been largely flat, very, very low single digit, but I will turn it more or less flat. And this is across wires as well as cables.

15:40 Sure. And in renewables, would it be more like volatile or the quarters and it is something that we can maintain? And at what top line level we can see more insourcing than outsourced model? Look, as you are aware, I'm coming to insourcing, outsourcing first. The strategic investment in Goldie, which we made was the part of a very planned execution that this will be so Goldie, I don't know if you put it outsourcing or insourcing because this was a strategic decision taken on that. I think it has held well because now as there is so much clamor, mean, we are able to sort of have a very significant and assured supply chain there. So I would tell you this is a strategy insourcing rather than outsourcing to that extent.

16:26 And inverters, we have been doing ourselves in house. And the other categories we're talking about, there will be very strong strategic tilt towards that. And a lot of them will be done in house either to the assembly or to the technical collaboration. And as far as the I think the sectoral tailwinds are strong and the way we are looking at the adjacencies as well, we are hoping internally that we should continue to grow well in this category because this is a strong economic imperative for renewables in India, which is also reflecting how the government is supporting this initiative. So, we are very positive on this and we expect it to become a larger segment and that's the reason why we have also carved out the universe so that it can be tracked both by the company as well as our investors on how we are doing the same. So, I think it just demonstrates our faith and belief in this category and the growth in better share.

17:27 Thank you. The next question comes from the line of from Nomura. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity, sir. First question is on the cable and wires. If we look at gap between the contribution margin and EBIT margin, it seems to have gone up a bit in the current quarter. Is it because of ad spend or if you can highlight what has led to this? And second question is, sir, on the price hikes and costs. I mean, if you look at, say, ECD or Lloyd, how much have we taken in terms of price hike in the current quarter? And how much more do we need to take to pass on the current costs? No, I think as far as your first question is concerned, yes, it is due to higher A and P spends during the quarter.

18:18 It's across the businesses, not just cables and wires. And as I have said already, during the year, it will get normalized. So we do not expect any major changes in the overall profitability for various divisions. And as far as price hikes are concerned, look, different product categories require different price hikes depending upon the kind of raw materials used in that category. But generally speaking, 7% to 8% would be the right price hike average if we take it. And whether everything has been passed on, we were actually disciplined enough to say that we have been able to pass on the entire cost, but some of the remnants of some averages might be coming in the second quarter. But I would say most of the price hikes have already been taken now in a staggered manner.

19:11 Okay. Okay. So at current commodity cost, we should ideally see margins improving from the coming quarters if it stays at that level. So I think, you know, volatile prices have also moved up in a staggered way and price hikes have also moved up. So I would say we will now see the normalized margin levels. Got it. Contribution margins. Okay. And second question is for only Lloyd. I mean, Lloyd, we used to do a double digit contribution margin, which has now been in high single digit for quite some time. Given the competitive dynamics and your focus, do we anytime soon see that going to that double digit levels? Or do you think that may take longer now given the industry?

20:01 No, no. I think except the non seasonal quarters of second and third quarter, but we should be seeing double digit sooner than later. All this has happened also due to the volatility and timing differences between passing price hikes and all that. But otherwise, in full quarters, we will definitely see it coming back to double digits. Got it, sir. Thanks a lot. I'll come back in the queue. Thank you. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Praveen from PL Capital. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thank you for opportunity. My first question is related to the pricing. Sir, last quarter, Q4, you indicated 5% to 20% of a price hike implementations.

20:49 So is there some challenges have you faced in absorption of those price hikes in this last quarter Q1 as well? I would not say challenges have been faced. Think challenge was to pass on the price hike in which we've been able to do it successfully. As I always remain skeptical about what it means for the volumes. Thankfully, the demand remained resilient in the first quarter. And hopefully, in the coming times also, it should remain resilient. Any improvement thereon in terms of raw materials or the world situation, definitely it will be either further passed on or reduced. But as of now, we believe that we have been successfully able to pass on the price side.

21:40 Second question, sir, is related to the CapEx, nearly around INR 1,400 crore for CapEx for 'twenty seven what we had given in the press release. Can you give us some color on the bifurcation on the segment wise, where it is going for a full year in this number? Look. The bigger part of that is going into the cable device business, almost about 800 crores. About 200 crores is going into the new r and d center. The rest is all divided into other business. And last question, sir, related to your collaboration on the best. If you can give some more color on this... On the revenue and the margin visibility and when that's going to contribute to the number, this PICSI collaboration? And how is going to work, whether you are going for a manufacturing of those assembly of those or just a decision you are planning for?

22:36 I think these are early stages to discuss this on the call right now, one. And two, is any way part of the overall renewable strategy. So as things pan out, we will be coming back with more information, but it is too early to comment on it. Thank you, sir, and all the best. Thank you. The next question is from the line of Sonali from Jefferies. Please go ahead. Sir, thank you for the opportunity. So my first question is if you could give... You know, shed some more light on the weaker performance in switchgear, both in terms of demand and margins, especially because this is your highest margin segment. How should we look at this segment going forward in the coming quarters? I do understand you have mentioned in your press release that, you know, the demand has been impacted because of the especially crisis.

23:29 But since we are amongst the key market leaders, a 4% decline in sales year on year and with a margin bit seems a bit concerning to me, which is why I'm asking this question. Thank you. No. I think, you know, one is not only the best issue, but it's also, you know, switchgear is one of those business where, again, volatility of raw materials was high and it impacted the, the entire passing on of and I would say because of this volatility in raw materials, there was also confusion amongst the trade also on buying products. I think it has fairly stabilized and which should mean that the demand should be coming back from the second quarter. Hopefully, the international situation may also improve, but at least the domestic demand will remain stable from here. It seems so.

24:22 Sir, how much of your sales in switchgear is from international just in the context of what you said? 15%. Understood. Got it. Very helpful. So my second question is you did mention about the travel price on an average about 8%. Would you be able to help us understand which category on an average, how much price? And I understand you don't give outlook for guidance, but how should we look at the margins in the coming quarter? As in a broader range, should we expect it to revert back to our normal nine, 9.5 percentage and talking of EBITDA margin? No, I think, again, as far as price hikes are concerned, we have ranged between, let's say, 5% to 20%. 3,000,000,000 buyers have seen a larger price increase because of direct relation to copper and aluminum.

25:19 But otherwise, as I said, most of it is averaging about seven to 8%. As far as margins are concerned, I... You know, going forward, I think we are looking at stabilized... Stabilizing contribution margin. I would not so much comment on EBITDA margin because there's a lot of things associated with that, you know, volume growth and all that. At least contribution margins, we do believe our results are very good in terms of managing the volatility in the. And, hopefully, these things should remain within the coming quarters. Understood, sir. And just one last question, a sort of a confirmation. For the CapEx for FY twenty seven, we should expect at about 14,000,000,000. Right? 1,400 crores. Yes. Okay. Alright. Thank you so much, sir, and all the best to the team.

26:10 Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nitin Shetkar from Green Capital Single Family House. Please go ahead. Hi. Good afternoon to the management. This is a question not as an analyst, but more as an investor. So, obviously, the renewal business is showing excellent growth rate. I just wanted to get a sense of what the management is thinking in terms of revenue and top line in the future from the renewals and the strategy towards that because it's showcasing a lot of positive revenue off taken, so if you could just talk us through some strategic aspects of the renewable business for this year. See, I would say that, you know, having looked at this business, especially with the investment last year, we are looking at this business very strategically and for a very long period of time.

27:04 We made huge investment, in fact, for ensuring our supply chain for the coming years. So basically, you know, if I look at it strategically, we are very hopeful that this business can become very safe. We are basically evaluating all the possible places where, Havells could actually make sense, not only as a business, but also as a supplier to the renewable category. So when we are talking about renewables as a business, that's just one business. But also, you can understand when all this CapEx and investments are happening in the country, a lot of our products, including switchgears and cables is also getting affected positively, getting affected by that. Having said that, I think the future will also depend upon how the government looks at this, how the regulation looks at it, what kind of manufacturing happens in India, what kind of tariffs are there, what kind of subsidies there for the consumers and users. So there will be a lot of moving parts to the business.

28:17 I would only say that I think India has a great future in Universe and HAVELLS wants to play a part in that. I've also mentioned that we will be looking at it more not as utility scale, but more at the consumer and commercial and industrial installation. So that's how we're looking at this segment. There are tailwinds and hence it's reflecting in good growth in this year. But I think we have a very positive outlook for the entire category. So, second question is, like, you obviously mentioned that because of doubling of ad spends and raw material pressures, bottom line has been at least hit for the first quarter a little bit. Now, obviously, looking at future outlook by the close of next year, do you anticipate to recover the net profitability and come up to a certain level that showcases the growth or do you anticipate the set to be a bit flat?

29:15 What's your anticipation in terms of the margins which have been hit on the net profit for the first quarter and going ahead for the second, third and fourth quarter? I think without giving any guidance, I can say that we are one, on the A and P spend, things will normalize for the entire year. There will be initial bump in this year because we do believe that we need to get back to that percentage of what Rajiv just mentioned between 2.5 to 3% of the spend for the brand for building long term. But also, I've also said that we are looking at hopefully stabilized margins in the coming quarters also. I mean, we've proven our fact that we've been disciplined pricing despite the volatility in long periods. So having so there is a constant eye on the margin as well as managing expense. So I do see that, you know, we should see improvements in this year, both in volumes and profitability.

30:19 Thanks a lot, and all the best to the HAVELLS family. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you are requested to restrict your question to per participant. The next question comes from the line of from Optiver. Please go ahead. Thanks for taking my question. My first question is related to A and P spends and the market share that we're continuously losing in AC. Because if you think of medium term to long term, to get the customer's top of mind share, you have to continuously spend on A and P to get the share back, and this will result in your increasing market share in ACS. Of course, the ACS is over and you may not spend too much on marketing for the next two quarters, but let's say when the Q4 of FY 'twenty seven comes or Q1 of FY 'twenty eight comes, so how do you think of this advertising and promotion spend?

31:08 Yes, I think there are two things to advertising and spend as well as Lloyd is concerned. One is ensuring that we remain top of the mind awareness for the consumer during the season, but also to ensure that we build a long term premium image for the brand. So these two aspects we are always keeping in mind when we are advertising for Lloyd. And having said that, yes, the first quarter was certainly depend upon not just Q3, but other product categories also. And coming the fourth quarter also, we should be looking. So the way we look at it is that buoyant spends on A and P will remain elevated for the next couple of years because there is a dual requirement of also premiumizing the brand in the product categories, kind of quality and the features that we've given our product need to be communicated to the consumers for a longer period of time.

32:06 Got it. And my second question is on wires and cables. So if I compare it with our competitor who reported couple of days back, so they have reported, like, high single digit growth in wires and low to mid single digit growth in cables over a very high base that they had. While we are almost flat. And of course, our margins have also declined. So... But we do actually need to win in that segment, and there we are losing to some of our competitors. And how do you plan on gaining that market share back in wires and cables? I think as said that in especially in domestic wires, we have done a very good job in terms of not only ensuring that our contribution margins continue to remain the way they are. And also, as I mentioned, we've made certain steps, our distribution strategy changes to ensure that we become more of a sell out brand rather than just a sell in brand, which also impacted some volumes at the end of the quarter where suddenly the copper prices have started going down.

33:07 So we are becoming more of a sell out brand. As far as cable is concerned, we are seeing very good growth, but also it is linked to the capacity expansion which are happening. So I would say that the whole idea of winning in this business in cables is more capacity expansion ensuring that we continue to build our capacity there. But also in wireless, we continue to keep the customer confidence very high in terms of brand and distribution channel. I think that you may have seen that we had also during the quarter we had spent part of our advertising promotions on buyers as well. So I do believe that we have a very positive model long term prospects for cable and buyers put together.

33:54 And if you're talking about lower margins that also is affected by the fact that there was disproportionate spends on advertising and promotion for the quarter, which will normalize over time. And just to follow-up on this, and this is the last question from my end. So when you think you're spending higher higher on our wire and cable side also, and still, it is it is not resulting in sales for us. Of course, you may say that it will result in coming quarters, but over the time, we have seen that we have been constant... Consistently losing market share to the competitors. So how do you think of this advertising strategy on wires and cables? And when will it lead to results? I think I don't need to repeat my answer. I've already answered. Okay. Sure. Thank you.

34:40 Thank you. The next question is from the line of from ICICI Prudential Life Insurance. Please go ahead. Thank you. Sir, first question on the Lloyd's side, the rooms from roof tanker air conditioner, the last because of our product placement, mean, last year Q1 itself, we had a low base versus industry. And even last quarter was a low base for us. So despite that, Q1 numbers are relatively lower in the past summer season. So is there any change in strategy or some music? And apart from that any market share loss that you seem to have reported in the secondary sales side?

35:30 I think initially I had mentioned that as a company we have made certain improvements in our distribution system where we are becoming more of a sellout brand and same is the case with Lloyd as well. So we are focused right now on the sellout from our channels. So because of the B rating changes, there were certain stocks which were pushed during the third quarter and the fourth quarter in the channel. We do believe along with the delayed summer, onset summer during April, we have been able to have a decent sellout from the channel. Sell in may have been affected, but I think over a long period of time, this should get stabilized. This is also during the entire volatility in the raw materials. So sometimes during a particular quarter or So there's no market share loss.

36:48 We do believe that Yes. On cloud You can separately connect with our IR department as Sorry for Sure. Can't hear you properly. Yes. Yes. Question is on profitability of Sorry to interrupt your question. Your voice is not audible. Am I audible now? Hello. Can you please speak right? Yes. You're audible, sir. Okay. Last question is on the profitability of. So apart from the A and D spend this quarter, for last two years, we have seen, say, we changed profitability of these two segments.

37:37 So when you say normalization of margin, what will be normalized margin? That is one point. And second, specifically to cities and cities for last three or four years, our absolute EBITDA has been same, even with lower sales growth. So probably we have lost market share as well as profitability. So any outlook on cities and cities? So can't really hear properly. You're saying that the Switchgear margin, the normalized margins are somewhere between 37% to 40%. That's the question that I understood. Okay.

38:25 Let me connect it separately, probably some issue with my connected. Thank you again. All the best. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of from Numama Institutional Equities. Just wanted to check-in terms of the cable segment, how are you seeing the momentum? Was there any pain in terms of the demand in last couple of quarters? Or it is purely to do with the teething issues in the asset ramp up for us in cable segment, sir? I think cable segment, we've been doing well. So we've been ramping up our capacity. And I don't think there are any issues. We are actually gaining good growth in the cable segment.

39:13 The challenges that we have seen in the last couple of quarters is the volatility in volatile prices. So sometimes, certain times material gets pushed or sometimes there is a slow pickup because of suddenly the volatility, volatile prices start going down. Other than that, on the tables, I think we are on the planned track of increasing capacities and increasing sales. Fair. Just one question I had with respect to solar cables. In terms of offering, do we have all the relevant SKUs? And what is the contribution of solar cable for us and also, if possible, for the industry? Just your thoughts on the same, sir. We do have the entire range, but we'll come back to you. I think if you talk to a higher, they can give you some more color on.

40:02 Sure. That's all. I'll just call back in the queue. Thank you. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of from Bank Securities. Please go ahead. Good evening, sir. Thank you. Sir, in this quarter, there is a significant rise in the A and P cent. So is it possible to quantify how much it has gone from Lloyd and how much is a non Lloyd business of the company? And if at all, you are targeting INR800 crores and how much it will... You're planning for Lloyd and and the rest of the business of the company? Thank you. Yes, the breakup we don't give. Normally, depends upon also the quarterly because it's very seasonal.

40:52 But overall, INR, I don't think we have given any guidance for INR 800 crore. As we said, this should be normally around 2.7%, 2.8% of the net sales, which has been the trend for the last few years. But for this INR $2.86 crores, any idea that how much it has gone from Rolled and non card gainers? As I said, we do not give bifurcation on the division wise. The next question comes from the line of Sameer Gupta from IIFL Capital. Please go ahead. Hi, sir, and thanks for taking my question. First question is on lawyers. Now I understand this question has been answered during the course of this call, but I'm just trying to find my interpretation here. So you're saying that there is an impact due to higher sell ins in previous quarters and normalization of that has taken place plus staggered price hikes over the course of the last two quarters that might have impacted primary optics. Would this be a correct interpretation?

41:59 Yes, and a few other reasons also, but we have primarily these two reasons. Sir, so just a follow-up on this then, Basically, higher sell ins in previous quarter should have then resulted in higher growth in the previous quarters, which I'm not able to see. So is it that the last year, the sell ins were very high and that is normalizing now? You see, if you remember last year, there was a very bad season. And also, a lot of de rating changes happened at the end of December, plus the volatility in the raw materials in the first quarter. So and also I've also mentioned that Havells and Lloyd both have gone through a change in the distribution strategy for the company, which is we believe is a foundation for very positive growth in the coming quarters.

42:52 So all this put together, yes, it has reflected in this growth that we have achieved in the first quarter. Thanks for the detailed answer, sir. If you could just elaborate on this change in distribution in Havells and Lloyd that you're talking about? I think for the purpose of this call, would say that as both Havells and Lloyd have become more sellout oriented than sell in oriented. So basically, aligning with the secondary, that's what it would Got mean, right, it. Second question, if I may squeeze in. Ad spends, if I'm looking at this quarter, again, this has been discussed, so pardon me if something that I'm not being able to interpret correctly. But on an absolute and as a percentage of sales, both it is among the highest that we have done in any quarter, especially in a quarter where there is RM pressure across the board. So is it driven by any, you know, major event like an IPO or something?

43:57 Or just wondering if this could have waited. No, that depends upon the strategy of the company. Company looks at the long term. All the raw material fluctuations and everything are short term. Bandwidth is long term. So if I would have been too concerned about quarter on performance then of course I would have definitely said that it's been later on. But I think brand building is a continuous activity. As I said, we have relooked at the entire strategy of A and P and that's where it led to us coming back to certain media or certain product categories. That's the only thing. Otherwise, nothing again, as I said, the difference between thinking long term for certain things and short term for certain things.

44:48 Got it, sir. That's very detailed. Thank you so much. I'll come back in the queue for follow ups. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Ashish Jain from Macquarie. Please go ahead. Sir, my first question is on renewables. Can you share some thoughts from a, let's say, three to five year perspective, how big this business can be in your vision? And what are the key products which will be driving that? I've already said this, that it's too early to give any more detailed answer than what we've already given. Okay. Sir, secondly, on cables, it's a bit surprising that like four quarters back or six quarters back, we had capacity issues. And now with capacity coming in also, our cable volumes are flattish.

45:42 So is how should one think about that and your view on what's driving that? I think I've given this in a lot of answers that while our capacity utilization has been high, some part of the table is also affected by the raw material fluctuations, which also means that sometimes the sellout becomes slower when the raw materials are fluctuating heavily. So not everything is going to projects because there's a lot of dealer sales also in cables. So when the raw materials start going down, the dealers start selling out from their own stocks rather than picking from the company. So there are a lot of factors I don't think you should look at one quarter. No, sir. Just an extension of that. So should we think that for cables and ACs in particular for the same reason, the channel inventory you are today is lower than normal?

46:35 Is that the right way to think then and that could reflect in a At at least at the end of the quarter, yes. Of both the products. Okay. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of from GS. Please go ahead. Sir, first question is, in your opening remarks plus a few other times, you sounded a lot more confident on overall growth. My question is, is this confidence stemming from the price increases that have happened across categories? Or are you also feeling more confident about volume growth going forward? I'm always confident. About, sir, volume growth or price it's the pricing growth that is going be? I'm always confident about HAVELLS growth.

47:29 Okay. Okay, sir. So my second question is, would you be able to highlight what is the capacity utilization at the cables and wires division right now for us? Can't give it to you on this call. Okay. I'll I'll take it from the IR team separately. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for the closing comments. Thank you very much, everybody, for attending this call and being very patient on the call. Thank you once again. You sure have very good weekend. On behalf of ICIC Security, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining, and now you may disconnect your lines. Thank you.