Gomspace Group (Stockholm:GOMX) Q2 2026 Earnings Call

0:00 Welcome to today's event where we have the pleasure to present GomSpace. As we can see here on the front page, the Q2 and H1 report is in focus. Today, I guess we will also share some views on a sector, I guess, that where, yeah, the world is changing every quarter. As I see it from the decreeing nuclear power plant on the moon and so on and SpaceX. So very, very likely to hear some of your insights in in this sector, Carsten. And always, we are joined by Karsten Blackman, CEO of GOMSpace, to take us through the results, the presentation, and answer questions in the end. And as always, there's a box down below where you can ask your question. A lot have already come in, see if something is answered, but do feel free to ask questions through all the presentation, but we will take it in the end. But for now, I will hand the stage over to you, Carsten.

0:52 Thank you, Michael. And yeah, welcome all here to our first half report for for 2026. Like Michael said, do ask questions. I repeat, I am leading the chat forums. I'm seeing everything that you are writing and and please ask questions. I try to answer the the best I can. But the picture here, think it's a fantastic picture, maybe starting with that, ten years on Nasdaq in Sweden.

1:17 It's a long time. It's been a very ambitious time. It's been turbulent times. It's been up and down. I think, I hope you'll agree with me, the Q2 and the first half result here for 2026 is trending towards definitely in a better end and towards more stability. So ten years ups and downs, and now we are moving forward to a brighter future, I believe. Let's take a look at it. So, of all, Q2 results, our revenue compared to same period last year went up 17%, 112,000,000. We have delivered a positive EBITDA of 13%. It's pretty good percentage wise because this is significantly better than most of the industry in many.

2:03 Please remember, many are still not making any money, but we understand how to make money. Our cash flow is negative. This is according to to our plan. Also, I know there are some questions on what what are we doing, where we're investing in in developing more technology, We're creating more platforms of different sizes of of satellites. And then I thought, stepping aside here so you can see that, so this is also what what some of your money has gone into, what we have spent. This is a vibration table, fairly big one. It's much larger than what we had before because we start building bigger satellites. So we have invested in this, and the whole vibration is a pretty important part of our of our process of building and testing satellites. And the vibration is about when you put the satellite on the rocket and it goes off, there's a lot of vibration, has to sustain that. Once it's in space, no vibration, but there are lot of rules and procedures, and it's much more efficient for us to have it here. So some of the money of the minus 42,000,000 is is sitting right here behind me. So it hasn't just vanished into blue space.

3:04 Bank account looks healthy. We have been more than 180,000,000 in a bank account at the end of June. Looking at the half year summary, we are looking at 30% growth on revenue, also very good. Remember, the market is growing 14%, 15% in average for our business segment here. We're growing 30%. This is well in line with what we have predicted for the year. EBITDA at 25,000,000, about 11%. So again, I'm very happy with hitting that number. This is what we want to be and still better than the market on average. Minus 100,000,000 in cash flow expected. And well, bank account is the same as the previous one.

3:50 Also note the bottom line net profit is positive with 28,000,000. There's been some transactions, financial transactions that has helped that. So, we actually have a situation, we have a positive EBITDA, we have a positive EBIT, and we have a positive net profit also. So, that's good, the net profit helps us also adding to our equity value. Taking a look at other events that had happened, I wanted to highlight, first of all, Peter Hargreaves. Thank you, Peter, again. He has converted. He's had a lot of warrants in connection with the previous loan agreements we've had. He's converted that to shares. That's good. Why? Well, concretely on a balance sheet, it has increased our equity ratio to 41%. Remember, need that when we're doing the government business. We need to have a strong balance sheet, and also when we when we are playing for the for the bigger deals, we need to be more solid. This is helping us a lot. The other thing is the issue we had with those warranties that every time the share price goes up and you investors are are happy with what we're doing, it has a negative impact on the net profit. And the share price goes down, has a positive impact. So, it doesn't make any sense. So, luckily, Peter had no problems taking those warrants off the market and converting them to shares. He's not selling, just converting to shares. This is good, this has helped us.

5:07 Somebody called it the elephant in the room. It's not an elephant. Well, we do have an outstanding receivable that's still here. It was from 2025. We reduced it with with the customer by simply reusing material. A reminder, they had ordered us a big amount of money for some time. We control the assets, we haven't sent anything to them, and we had different collateral agreements in place. In this context, we simply chosen now to reuse some of the material for other projects and also reduced our exposure. The customer is in a fundraising period, it's taken a long time. I've said before, they're playing for big bucks, not peanuts. So, it's taking some time. I am in daily contact with them, and I'm confident that they will be successful in the end. It's a question of timing, but we have understood how we manage this situation.

5:59 Further, after, it was after the Q2 closing, but on August 1, the agreement we had was that if they hadn't paid at that time, we we will take over a significant amount of shares in that company. So we're so we are now sitting on 30,000 shares in that company. It's not a security per se. It's simply now we control our shares, say ours, and it's a future upside. Obviously, if the company is worth nothing, which I don't think they will be, this is not worth anything. If the company is successful going forward, well, there's an upside sitting here for for GomSpace, and we have a we have a right to convert those shares into cash. Basically, it's called a put option. You can put it back to the company and they will have to give us cash. Once they raise the capital, that should be no problem. So it's a little bit a compensation for annoying clearly that this receivable that's been outstanding so long, we have handled it, we, you know, we don't have to take any write downs, we have reduced the exposure by reusing the material, and we have a lot more material in control, and we could reuse other places if we have to.

6:59 And then as a compensation, a future upside on on holding holding shares in that company. You can read in the report the current share price valuation is about $949, convert that to to SEK 250 plus odd SEK today. There's no guarantee. I'm not saying that's a value in the future, but this is is as its value right now. Okay, moving on. So, just a repeat, remember we're executing in the four business units here. It's important, I see there are some questions, how are gonna make money into the future? How are gonna grow? So I just wanna do a little recap on on on these business units. If you start with product, industrial scale engine, the revenue come by high volume sales. So thousands of products of standardized products and subsystems to different kind of integrators.

7:50 The profit is driven by our manufacturing efficiency, supply to being able to scale supply chain and repeatable production. So we keep doing more of the same. So this is good for us. I've said to you before, the margins here are good and the cash flow is really it's driven by inventory turnover. So this is also a business where we have to have fast delivery times, we really need to manage our supply chain and inventory, and then we can turn it quickly into revenue and cash. Products is a baseline for everything we do, and you will see that also in a later slide. It's really a core. This is all the core technology sitting here. Satellite systems is about putting together satellites on contracts. A customer wants a satellite or want it to be read this big and do this or that. This is what we do. We have to do that efficiently.

8:39 This is amongst others where this vibration table comes in, and once we put the satellite together, it goes on this table, and we have to check that nothing falls off and everything is okay. Revenue will be the the the growth come, of course, from number of deals that we can close, but also driven by constellations. We are working towards getting larger programme contracts that will run over a longer period of time. We're not in a service business, we are in a hardware software business, so the our repeatable revenue over time is getting bigger contracts, which of course we're working for. In order to do that, we need to be able to do repeatability, we need to standardize our platforms more, so that once we get the the larger deals, we can also execute efficiently. Cash flow here is much more driven by by milestones.

9:25 Contracts have a certain lifetime, twelve year twelve months, two years, three years, and then there are pre pre milestones. Our job is to make sure that we're always cash flow positive, which we are in the majority of contracts. National and Defence Solutions, this is where we see the pipeline going up a lot. So we'll talk a bit more about that. It's really driven by multi year mission critical programmes and contracts, very much focused on sovereign customers. So different nations, Denmark, Germany, Indonesia, France, US. So very much driven also by defense. The profit is coming from a via we do more value based selling. We're not selling satellites, are selling solutions to troubles or problems, challenges.

10:11 Our Indonesian project, is still alive, is about protecting the fishing industry. So we are selling protection of fish and information about Chinese trawlers, not selling satellites, two different things. Same thing with the opportunities in Ukraine, I'll talk a about later, is also about solving a specific problem, not just selling a satellite. Also here, cash flow is driven by payments where we are looking for to have advanced payments, which is normal, so that we always cash flow positive on these programs, provided obviously the customer is paying. But this is how we drive it, and this is where we see the pipeline. If I look into the pipeline, it's it's growing for all the different business units, but this is where we see by far the largest deal sizes. And this is also a part of the strategy from last year that we said, okay, we're gonna focus more on this and we are getting better. We're recruiting more people, we have more skill sets in doing these solutions, and eventually it it will pay off.

11:09 Advanced missions, remember our innovation capability engine here also, revenue driven by securing strategically important, high complexity missions, something new, something more difficult tapping into the European defense fund budgets, ESA budgets, looking at things that are becoming the next big thing into the future. It can be lunar missions, could also be this very low Earth orbit, or it could be other technology that we see becoming dominant into the future. So, North America, this is about market presence, this is about tapping into that enormous budget that they have in The US, and really focusing and hiring, we're hiring more people. I think we have about 10 people now in The US working on capturing initially some smaller mid sized deals, getting some product sales, which is a bit easier to get, and then working towards hooking into some larger programs, be they commercial or government. There's also much more commercial activity in The US, and Silicon Valley is booming with money right now, and everybody who wants to do a new service in space can get money. They are our customers, and we are focusing on that.

12:22 Business unit numbers. So on the back of that, let's let's dive into it. Well, first of all, revenue, a 112, up about 17% from from from the quarter last year. If you look at the distribution here, products came in at about 40,000,000 of that. Satellite systems 50, advanced vision 22, and North America 11. This is zero and I get that question, hey, why do you have a business unit that has zero? Well, explanation is we are really focusing there and this is where the pipeline is driving and I am cautiously optimistic about that, zero won't stay there very long. Once we start getting some of those contracts in, the numbers will be quite different. But we still keep it on this level here. But as you can see, all units are actually growing compared to last year.

13:12 Where's the EBITDA? We are measuring each business unit per as as as a stand alone entity. So, we're also measuring and sharing EBITDA with you. We had 14,000,000 overall, and you can see here that the vast majority is actually coming from products. It's not a surprise we're also doing so that our satellite systems actually have to pay something to our product business unit, which is only fair because if you don't buy it in house, you buy it externally. So that is why we structured it like this. So I've said before, remember, products is a higher margin, it's a different kind of business. It's customer see, customer like order production ship, collect cash, maybe collect cash first is a good idea, we do that as well. So so very different animal where where we have different margins.

14:03 Satellite Systems is contract business, you can have certain margins there that are not as high as in products, but the volume is here, quite a big revenue to get that. You will see better EBITDA once that volume goes up simply by the by the scale of things. National and Defence Solutions right now are not making money, obviously, they have no sale or revenue. We see that changing also. We are also expecting to see better better margins here compared to satellite systems, and it's okay. It's just a different game, and that's how we see it. At transmissions, margins will vary a bit with what we are entering into. But overall, I'm satisfied with the EBITDA here, it's in line with what we are projected and also what we are trying to keep a profitable growth, which we have succeeded with in this quarter.

14:50 Looking a bit at order intake went CHF240 million. Yes, it's less than I saw there were some comments on Q2 last year. That's also where we had a large order intake, so not surprised. What I'm more looking at two things, it's better than it was in the first quarter this year. And also, is higher than our revenue, which means when it's higher than our revenue, which was 112,000,000 compared to 140, it means our backlog is going up, backlog going up is a good thing because it gives more predictability into the future. Looking at what are the key deals, we had two more microsats from Martin Labs, 50,000,000. We had a big product order for for kit sales. Remember the kit is the IKEA bag. We take all the everything you need to build your own satellite, put it in a bag with a little description and some screws and cables and send it to the customer, and then they can do it themselves. So this is a first we have had some orders on this before, this is the biggest deal we've had so far on this.

15:46 And if you compare it to revenue, I think you saw, it's a 47,000,000 for first half for products, and then look at this order, you can see, we start seeing a differentiation a bit in the order sizes in products, we still have a €5,000 €10,000 sale, this more frequently going, and then we start seeing some bigger ticket items. Costs a bit more on predictable, but when they're coming, they also have a big impact on the company results. So very happy with that deal. More CubeSats to Unseen Labs and also Ramses, ESA, European Space Agency, another asteroid mission to remember, we still have a little satellite, Juventus flying out, still has to fly for some time before it gets to the asteroid 180,000,000 kilometers away. We're entering now more on a consulting basis in another program, which is what's it called? Amorphous or something like that.

16:38 It's another asteroid that's coming close to Earth in I believe it's in 2030, or very soon it's gonna go very close to Earth. And this is a rapid mission to try and get something over flying so we can study what does that asteroid look like when it's much closer to Earth than before. So it's also a very cool mission coming in here. Now this is I haven't showed you this one before. It's in the report, but just looking a little bit differently, how is it how is it distributed on on order intake per per per business unit? You can see 47,000,000 from products, 74 from from satellite systems, advanced missions and and North America. Overall, our order backlog is is going up. You can see where the order backlog is sitting. So right now, the the largest is still in satellite systems.

17:25 That's understood. That's where we have contracts that's running over a longer time. The backlog for products will never externally be it should be a lot higher because if it gets too high, much higher, then we are not fast enough in delivering. So that will always be turning quickly, whereas the satellite systems, we would like to see that it's growing for predictability. Now here you can see what I'm saying, why we have structured it the way we do between the different product units and actually satellite systems and the others are shopping from products. So externally, we might have a 42,000,000 backlog. But if you count all the obligations that are internally to the other business units and to our customer contracts, it's a lot higher number. 100 and I better read myself, 134,000,000. So it's significantly higher. And this is to imply also and show this is actually the activity level that's there in the business unit.

18:16 This is how we need to scale our manufacturing capacity and our supply chain is actually to the 134, it's not to the 42 alone. So it's also why we do it like this and there's some internal trading to make sure that there's a fair compensation in the products in order to keep up the supply chain and everything going. Conclusion on that. So our order backlog has gone up 28,000,000 since first quarter and the order intake is outperforming the the revenue for the quarter. I'm pleased with that. So, outlook for 2026 unchanged, still believe that we will we will hit inside the range. You can ask us why you're not narrowing it down now. There's a lot of dynamic in going on. Things are moving quickly. There could be some large product orders coming that we can we can ship quickly. They could also come a bit later. I just don't know now. It's it's hard to predict, but our our best estimate is that we are hitting inside of this range with a good profitability.

19:15 You can take the first half as we are definitely on the right track here. Sometimes we totally falter at the in the second half of the year, there's no reason to believe that we are not doing well in this area here. And the cash flow remains negative as already projected. We see strong number of opportunities, particularly with the international and defence solutions. This is where we see the the big ticket items. You can you will see that the business is going to be a continuous business of products. There will be some swings up and down, but that's a solid income and and contribution margin stream there. Satellite systems also have different deals. We announced some 50,000,000 for Unseen '24 for Unseen. We have virtual labs in Italy the previous quarter. So we will have these 20,000,000, 30,000,000, maybe up to 80,000,000 deals coming on a regular basis. That's our bread and butter.

20:07 And then we all want, I know you want, I want, we all want the same thing, the big ticket items, and they will very much be coming through the National Defence Solutions. That is my expectation. Now, let's take a look at market momentum. So, I'm going to show you a slide you've seen before. I think repeat is good for clarity, and then I want to put some more markets, trends, and comments on this. So I pay attention here. I'm trying I think I will answer a number of the questions I see in the chat forum also. First of all, we are here, satellites are redefining what's happening in the world now. Space is now frontline, space is defence, defence is space. That is undisputable, this is what's happening. Governments are shifting to a large extent towards sovereign assets, enabling end to end solutions. Like I said, we're not selling satellites, we're selling solutions to problems, challenges.

21:03 And we'll also see that we should start eventually, we'll see some contracts from all our efforts over the years that are multi year in nature. So it's not just in and out, and then and then we have to get more sales. We always have to get more sales, but longer contracts is good for us. Now let's reflect a little bit on what we see here. Okay, Ukraine. Pay attention. So we have now have the satellite for the so called UASAP, the operator, potential satellite operator ambition in Ukraine. We have the first satellite, which is intended as IOD, in orbit demonstrator, where we're gonna look at frequencies, measure different things to prepare for a larger constellation. Now there's a long road to go. As I've just shared before, there is budgets in in EU and funding from Europe that are very positive to go to Ukraine for this.

21:55 We are talking directly with the MOD and the government in Ukraine around this. But it is a process of there needs to be funding a service operator for running it, similar to Starlink needs to be set, it has to be in Ukraine. When that structure is in place, that customer would be our customer who will then order satellites from us. So here we are really truly showing you what solution selling mean and market making means, because in the end, we wanna sell the satellites for you as well as investors. But we have to do a lot of work to lobby to make sure that the money is growing in the right way, and this is what we're doing. The first technical step on that is to get that satellite up and flying. It is right now, it's been parted as it's called. It's been through the vibration here, and it's on the way to the launch site, and it will go up with the next starting or SpaceX launch in the beginning of October.

22:46 So this is progressing. I know everybody wants to hear what are the numbers and when is it happening. We are working on it. It's a complicated process, as you can imagine. Ask yourself the question, when is the war in Iran ending? If you can answer that question, you can answer when this is happening also. When is the war in Ukraine ending? If you can answer that question, you can see how fast this is going. It's not an impossibility, but it is a process. And we're taking the steps and the measures, and we are we are well positioned here. Ukraine is more than that. This is one opportunity that has gone somewhat public before. There are other opportunities that we're working with the Ukrainian government. Asia is another area speaking into those four bullets that I'm mentioning here. Yes, Indonesia is alive. No, I will not answer when it's closing, but yes, Indonesia is alive. And that's for years to years of what does CASA mean.

23:39 It's a project around illegal fishing in Indonesia. It's still there. We have the commercial contract is still valid. There's no end date on it. And the next step is still that the the financing direct government. The government financing from Denmark is happening, but Indonesians have to ask for that, and this is still the process. So sorry, guys. Long process. I'm not going to give up. We'll keep at it, and eventually we will see results out of that. But Asia in general is is a key market. I've said that before, because there's not that much local industry. There's some industry in the different countries, but not really, not so much in Indonesia, not in The Philippines, not in Malaysia. Singapore has something, but actually Singapore, we have, we're the biggest provider of satellites to Singapore right now. So there is a need out in Asia, especially Southeast Asia, that it's there. You can say, oh, it's also big in Europe. Yes, is. We'll talk a bit about that.

24:35 But in Italy, for example, Italians have a tendency to buy from Italians, and France buy in France, etc. So, there is bigger budgets there, there is also local industry that they're keeping alive, but in Asia not so much, not in Southeast Asia. So, that's a key area for us. And so, you'll also see some revenue streams from there. If you go North, South Korea is very aggressive, ambitious here. We have a

24:58 lot product sales in South Korea, so that's good. And you see more programmes coming from there. We have a good name in South Korea. Lars and Lautner, our founders, were there whenever students, were teaching at a university. Everybody knows Lars and Lautner and GOMSpace in South Korea. So that's helping us. Japan is opening up. Japan has been a fairly closed market. They're trying to do their own industry. They've done okay, but actually they haven't done as well as they should. They don't have a sovereign network for communication. They're missing capabilities. So we see an opening there also that we are starting to to focus on. And we got to put more boots on the ground in Asia, meaning we will we will hire people in the Asian market to be to be closer. Denmark, ongoing. What to say? I think across Europe and in Denmark, I I see a couple of things. The understanding of what investing in space for defense is there. The political understanding is there, and I believe the political will is there. The budgets are being put forward across Europe, also in Denmark.

25:57 What's missing right now is the procurement processes have not really changed. So while the political process and budgeting process has actually moved forward, there is a lot of money flowing. There is a political will,

26:10 and I'm not blaming anybody, don't tell you wrong, but is a procurement process that hasn't really changed. You can discuss why, who's responsible for that, but it doesn't really matter. The fact is that it's sort of a levee and it's rolling. First, the politicians understood this is needed. Government decision makers, this is needed. And after some time, there was budgets. Now there's budgets, now the procurement processes need to happen. So, we are patiently working on here also in Denmark. I'm mentioning Germany, because we have been focusing on that for for some time now, trying to understand what's our place. There are some opportunities we see in Germany where we can we can play. Remember, it's a €35,000,000,000 investment from the government into space for defense in Germany. I just heard that it's been expanded to €42,000,000.

26:57 It's a lot of money. It's more than the German industry can can handle by themselves. The interesting part for us is that we're saying, okay, where where where do we play?

27:05 We start seeing some some openings. Wanna reference a large prime, let's just call it that, right? We we met with, we're meeting with a lot of potential partners in in Germany. They came to us and say, let's talk more and say, okay, let's talk more. Why do you wanna talk to us? And say, you know what? When we analyze the whole German market for the for the type of satellites that you're representing and building, you're actually more mature than most of the rest of the the German market. So we you can imagine we were smiling and saying, okay. So this is also playing a bit into the old intra case. I know you want some some news on that. There is it's still working on budget, so there's not a lot of progress there. But remember, back in the day, some of you dispute with India. They didn't like what we were doing. You know, big to do down, not nice.

27:51 And in the end, they came back after a year, year and a half, and paid us, 20,000,000 SEK and say, actually, we've been around the world. You guys are actually pretty good, and we are sorry. And now we want to want to work more, which resulted in we have launched a satellite with them. This is an example also. We were happy to hear that and encouraging us to go even more towards Germany. You can ask me when are you closing deals? I don't know. But what I do know is that the pipeline is growing and opportunities also there in in Germany. Next one is a deep space. I just talked about the ESA, Ramses asteroid emission. Remember, Blue Origin is here also, not to forget all the good things that we've been doing. We announced the first phase of Blue Origin earlier in the year, and and obviously, we're expecting there would be a second phase as well for a lunar

28:38 mission. This is a run out of Luxembourg is also funded from the Luxembourg government, actually. So this is this is pretty cool. By the way, pop quiz, why is it that Luxembourg is investing in lunar missions? Weird. Well, that lunar mission is about mapping out the the minerals on the moon for potential future mining. What is Luxembourg? If you go back in history, some of you are strong on that. People pick it up on this chat forum. Luxembourg is actually the the mining heart of Europe. So they have a vision to say, used to be great. Our biggest income is for mining in the past. Let's make it so in the future. So that's why they're investing. It's a bit curious why why is Luxembourg, but they do whatever serious about it. So there you go. There is more opportunity here. Products, I've also said that we will see there would be more product revenue coming because when the whole market is growing and since we're catering to the whole market, also our competitors, see it's here by growth and keeping our market share on our brand out there, we should see revenue, a growing revenue stream here.

29:39 The large kit order we got, as the largest we've had so far is a confirmation of that. If you can imagine, I said that 34,000,000 out of current revenue of 50,000,000 in in a half year. It's a it's a pretty big deal and and they come with with good contribution.

29:53 So, need more of those. There would be a bit more lumpy. There would come some in one quarter and then nothing, and then there would come two in the next quarter. So, it'll be a bit more lumpy, but nevertheless, once they're coming, they are very good for us. Then volume scalability will become a competitive advantage. We have to be able to scale our production. We can do a lot and we will and we can still do. We have a lot of capacity here. We just built our vibration table for larger satellites. But going into larger satellites, if we really pick up on larger deals, we need to have a more scalable supply chain. We need to understand. We have to invest more in also managing supply chain inventory. We will have to expand eventually our production capability.

30:38 It goes without saying. So therefore, what's a negative cash flow cost? And well, it is related amongst others to this also the investment. And now now we have proof it's here. So I'm not lying. Actually, they put some millions into this one. But we need to be able to scale. Not not not it's not just about a physical production capacity, it's also how do we

30:56 handle our supply chain, how do we make sure that long lead items are critical components so we can get them also in volume when when those deals comes in. Last one, roll up and consolidation will happen. We don't we have a plan to be the ones that are rolling up and consolidating others, and I don't see any reason that you need to be consolidated at this stage. I think we have much, much good, many good times, much more to a good time in front of us than looking for that right now. Okay, so I hope you pay attention. I'm trying to answer a lot of your questions and give you an idea of where will the revenue come from going into the second half year and also into the coming years. Okay, so summarizing it, so we can get to two questions.

31:42 We keep our forecast and our guidance for the year. We have a 30% growth year on year in the first half year. EBITDA is a nice 11% with a net profit of 28,000,000. Remember, remember the market is growing with 15%, 14%. So, in anything above that is better than market. And right now we're double, so quite quite okay with that. Cash flow negative as anticipated that we have we have money in the bank at the end of the of the quarter. Order backlog improved from from quarter to quarter here from q one to q two, and we have the higher, obviously, because we had a higher order intake than we had revenue. And balance sheet improved. Again, thank you to Peter Hagreaves for supporting not just GomSpace, all of you investors.

32:26 This is a good thing for you. So now we have a solid 41% equity ratio. Michael, over to you. Yeah. But you have already done my job much easier, Carsten. I think you took a lot in in advance. You know, there's a question about this debt, man. You talked that there was, which milestones, technical, contractual, and financial. Financial, that's the funding from EU and so on, if I should understand that correct. Technical, that is you shipping it up and showing it it that it it it will work before that. And then maybe contractual. This this, joint venture, this you might see you are selling a service provider. Maybe can you can you elaborate a little bit on on is that the joint venture who will be a service provider? Or maybe maybe a little bit more understanding there.

33:17 Yeah. Yeah. Let me let me clarify. So, no, the joint venture is not the service provider. Service provider would be something like Starlink. So so few who are familiar with Ukraine as a company called Kyiv Star, but you can

33:29 compare it to to Telenor here in in Denmark as an as an operator. So that would be the operator, and that needs to be set up. And this is where the money is gonna flow in. Money flows into the operator. Yes. Operator needs something to to to operate. They need satellites. Okay. They will go out and buy satellites from GomSpace together with Steadman or, and potentially others in this joint venture. The reason we have a joint venture is that it needs to be anchored in Ukraine and while we In Ukraine, yes. And by the do the first satellites in very likely out of of our production here in in in Olko over time, it is supposed to be a Ukrainian sovereign asset, so we also want to move a production to Ukraine using our technology. And the vision is also this is needed now where Ukraine is is is in in parallel and in a very difficult situation, but it is also a vision to be a future operator. So there's gonna be future business for Ukraine.

34:25 We are part of setting this up. We it's it's a fantastic job to do. It's hard. It's it's hard, but the demand is there and the willingness from EU is there. But, again, we're talking big box, so it's not it's not part of one day, but we we are on a track now to to get some technology flying. So the contractual part is actually maybe more surrounding the service provider right now if I should. So the service provider needs to come up and running and and it would take some time, but once they're up and running, then then they can start placing orders for satellites. And and what you're telling me, new or maybe not the investors, they follow you very, very closely is that could actually be a European run Starlink, you know? Yeah. But Ukrainian Ukrainian run. No. Ukrainian run Starlink. Yeah. Ukrainian run, but it could actually be selling to all of Europeans. Yeah. Yeah.

35:10 Yeah. If we feel that they are our backbone of defense in Europe. Yeah. The Danish government could buy services as well. It's just a question of the number of satellites that you send out. Yeah. But the initial focus is to cover

35:22 Ukraine. With a certain amount of satellites that I'm not commenting on, but a certain amount of satellites. Go go Google how many satellites are needed to run a network over a country. People can do chat GPC. And then if you wanna have a global coverage, you need more, obviously. But that's step two. And then of course I think you already answered this on the ITRA and this article, know, as we say they are starting to be a more vertical integrated company, but the question here is could you still be a platform subsystem supplier when Indra scales in the future? Know, so the direct question is is that still a possibility even if they're going more vertically integrated? Yeah. Let's divide it up. Indra is definitely a a a potential customer for us into the future as well, delivering technology or full platforms, whatever depends, like, the question is a bit direction they go. Just to be clear that the the customer we have is called a Statico. Yeah.

36:18 Statico. And they are joint venture between Indra and I believe it's the the Spanish airport authorities. So that's a joint venture, and this this venture needs money in order to progress what we've been doing. But interest behind it, and the question is, will they take over? Are they gonna take say, okay, we're gonna do this. We're gonna fund it. Somebody somebody has to fund it. Right?

36:39 Somebody needs to commit to build this network. And we're still there. We're in a dialogue. Our satellite is flying. It's working. It's being tested, and and we are in in a regular conversation. But again, as many of these larger programs, it's about budget. Either you are you are a commercial startup operator like our our good customer, hope customer for many years hasn't yet paid. They are working to get capital for commercial start up when it's government business and their traffic control is very likely gonna be funded from a government. That takes time. Look at Denmark, how long time it takes. So these are the processes we aim at, but our job and what we're doing right now is we're preparing for all of that. We're making sure we have technology, the competencies. We're out to talking to everybody, and we're also starting to build this trusted relationship where we are actually helping shape what should Ukraine buy and they're starting to ask us as an example.

37:28 Perfect. And then, of course, a lot of questions surrounding this, this receivable and so on and the collateral you took in here. You know? I I think, actually, I'm not really sure how much more you can ask there. So maybe a little bit on the valuation part. Is that because you kind of know they are in a funding process, so you kind of know some valuation. So when you say you have this amount of shares, value here. And then the question, of course, all surrounding, how how will you get it? And if I understand you correct, you had a put put option that that actually would, let the company, if they get funded, buy back the the shares. But a little bit on on the number you put up here, is that because there is some indications when they are picking up the when they are when they are when they are fundraising right now, so there will always be some numbers swimming around on the on the on the valuation.

38:21 Yeah. So let me let me answer that with a disclaimer. I cannot give any guarantee that these shares have any value in the future, but it is an upside, and I wanna separate it from it's not a security for the what they haven't paid. We actually hold assets. They are actual satellites that they haven't paid for. We control those. So that's actually our collateral. That's probably not taking a a write off, but we keep it alive. Those shares is basically a bonus. They haven't paid in time by August 1, so big bonus for everybody, including you investors. But we don't know what it will be, and you're right in terms of the it is described on page 33, so you can read more about it there. There is a share price of $949 per share. This is how they've been they have been raising capital. It's not like they have received nothing, but they haven't received enough. So we have a documentation. This is a current share price and valuation. So that's of course, that's what we're looking at. And if you look specifically for the first half year, we have recognized a few shares, page 33, you can read it. And we put them in at value at $9.49.

39:20 Disclaimer, I cannot guarantee you that it will be that in the future. It could be nothing. If they are not successful, they have a different story. It could be a lot more if they're very successful. I just don't know. So look at it as as a nice, nice upside. Not nice upside. And and you have the collatery in the satellites, maybe that's also why we're seeing your your inventory go a little bit up. Perfect. I think I think that's kind of you alluded to this. They ask you to name the company and so on so people can feel comfortable more comfortable. I'm not sure you're No. I I we believe I I wanna also say I speak with them every day, including some of their large investors. So I'm I'm very close to them. We understand what they're doing. I know where they are today. I know where the CEO is. I know who's talking to. So we're very close to them. We have no interest in sharing that because we're gonna go public, that might jeopardize their capital raise for whatever reason. So I have you have no interest. It's not in your interest either to know. No. No. No. No. Take take it as an upside, and then let them be successful, and they will be successful. Yeah.

40:22 Then there's a question. When do we see the best development for for one of the four business, units for the next year looking into it? Not that we are asking you to guide in each area, but, where do we see the best opportunities? Are these national defence Not gonna let me let me say not the best. Let's say the let's say the biggest, you know, the the big ticket items is national defence solutions. There are lots of good opportunities also for satellite systems for for for advanced missions. We talked a bit about Blue Origin. There's gonna be a continuation of that contract. There's no secret. It's out in the press release. That's what we're expecting. We also see product pipeline keeps evolving and growing. But like I say, every time we close something, we ship in a quarter or or fast and then we add it again. So we see good opportunities many places. The big ticket items are in National Defence Solutions.

41:16 And I think the way to look at it is that what you see now is bread and butter. I'm very happy with the first quarter because the first half is really delivering on target. But all of that is coming from these, let's say, small to mid size and slightly sniffing at the larger deals, but we we we can keep a growth on that. And of course, we are waiting patiently. I know you're impatient, so am I. But we are waiting patiently for the big ticket deal that's gonna give us a jump and change the dynamics, but they they take time. And and, actually, maybe we should stop asking these questions because I I if I should understand you, you're building the company. You have something as a base, you know, if you need to scale up your production, you need some some kind of a base case going base tune, I would say, to the products and and the satellite systems and and then being prepared for for potential big ticket items that can can come in in some of the others. I I guess is that how you kind of think of your setting up the company right right right now? Yeah.

42:15 Absolutely. And that's also why we I showed this interesting, right, that the external backlog for our products was was, I believe, for 49,000,047 million. And then but if you look at it internally, the demand through from the other business units is actually quite high. So that's showing how we need to manage the the supply chain. Some items are are are, you know, expensive or longer lead times, etcetera. So we have to it's it's becoming really a supply chain game very much. So so we have to look at our pipeline and understand that National Defense Solutions would pick a big contract, but it has a consequence for everybody in the company. It's not just isolated there. And and and then actually on the Defense Solutions, and I don't know one of you will go into it. You indicated good margins better maybe than satellite system. Why not better than products also? You know, at some point in time, you will you will and we need to model it. I guess solutions.

43:07 If it's total solution, it must always carry better margins than I don't know whether you wanna go so far and indicate to us. And then as long as you don't have any in the books, maybe you don't wanna front run that. But us thinking about it, it must solutions must carry higher margins or There is there a pay Yeah. They no. No. No. No. And that's what I've been saying also. I wouldn't compare it to products because products is very transactional. Like I said, you have a it's gonna be a different dynamic. You also have bigger overhead. Our largest R and D is in the product side. Products have a production capacity, they need to run supply chain. So it's a little bit of a different dynamic. But when you are in solution business and the National Defense Solutions, you have to think about it as solving a problem. It becomes more value based in Indonesia.

43:58 What is the value of a satellite network that could save $1,000,000,000 per year in lost GDP on on on the fishing industry in Indonesia? Right? So so that it's so it's a different it's a different animal simply. When you could bring value, then you price the value. When you do satellite systems, it is often much more comparable to either it's it's a tender process, there are five other bidders that are bidding something, and then you have to have the best price. So it's becoming a little bit harder to make the high margins, but here we will it's a capability we need to have, because National Defence Solutions are also going to bring volume, plus a lot more, but that volume ripples down in the system, and we have to be able to do that in satellite systems. So it's a different dynamic. We are competing, we have clever engineers at the customers buying satellites.

44:47 Okay, so they will always be scrutinized, you can get to a certain level, and then it's very transparent what it's costing and comparing. But when you do solutions where you're selling value, it's it's very different business. Then there's question, timeline for the order in Indonesia. I think you answered that very clearly. Yeah. I I don't know. It's it's still it's still alive, guys. It's still alive. It's not dead. Timeline. Well, I still as I joke, so far, Indonesia is working faster than Denmark. So let's just say it like that. Yeah. Perfect. Then there's a little bit about the margins and the sustainability and what what will you showing right now. Should should should we see is there something special in this quarter if we look on the margin side in any of the areas or in your total margins? Is there anything special or should we kind of in the half year report start to see a picture about the margin and the gross margin in the different areas in your type of the business. Yeah. There there obviously, as you explained, there's a difference between the different business units, what the what the margins are, and there would be some fluctuations quarter by quarter.

45:55 If you have a if you have a very strong revenue quarter for products that contributes a lot more. If it's satellite systems, then the the the percentage margin will be lower. So I think it will vary a bit, but it's also why Actually, there's a question here on the advanced mission who who delivered it. Is that is that a product mix? Is I that wouldn't I Yeah, is a result of a number of things that has happened in that business unit in terms of executing products or contracts. I wouldn't take that as an indicator that you can calculate the margin on that. But it's just a happenstance here. It's probably gonna be less in next quarter, but then you'll see products perhaps doing more. But overall, I'm really focused on the average percentage of everything. We are now hitting this 11%. And over time, obviously, ambition is to go higher. But hey, 11% is pretty good in this market.

46:45 I think you covered most of the questions. So you've done a lot of my job. There's a final one, let's start by this, you know, share price swing up and down. There's a question here. Why don't you go out and speak and tell the market that it's going as you expect and plans? And I don't know how to ask it because that's what you're doing here today by confirming your guidance. I know there's a range. Every company has a range. You told us about the market and the developments in the plans. Yeah. And Yeah. I I guess, I I I I would actually not feel comfortable, owning a share with a CEO commenting the the the share price. So I I understand the feeling when you get hit by the share, but, yeah. Any any comments to to this request, Carsten?

47:39 Yeah. Well, like you said, the the golden rule number one for CEOs, you don't comment on share price unless you're Elon Musk who is above god and he does it, but I don't. So it's it's not my job. My my job is to create transparency. And and if people feel I I noticed that some people feel they're not communicating enough, don't expect me to comment on the share price. I really try to share as much as possible. We had a q and a just before the summer. I think we are we are we are sharing quite a lot in these sessions. We're trying to talk about what's happening. So I would say, and maybe in a chat forum, you can help each other, do the market analysis, take a look at how have, you know, how the market's gone up and down for space they are. A lot of this is related to very likely to to general fluctuations in in the space investment. So so do that analysis yourself. Don't don't ask me. But I will keep, of course, reporting to you how we're doing. The quarterly result here is good.

48:29 I'm talking to you about National Defence Solutions, are building a pipeline. I know it would be lovely, we'd need to know the exact timing and everything. I'd like to know that my job would be a lot easier, but it's not how it works. But I'm telling you that we are seeing good pipeline growth. We're delivering. We have totally on track with our plan that we set out three years ago, turnaround the company. We did cash flow positive in 2024. Now we are not because we're investing more on purpose and obviously customers owing us a bit more money than we had planned. But we are managing that. We have a positive EBITDA. We are performing above the the industry standard. They're they're growing 15%. We're growing 30%, and we're delivering that positive profit. Not even EBITDA, my ambition was just the positive EBITDA, we have a positive EBIT and even a net profit. So as far as I'm concerned, we are really on a good track, and there is a positive outlook that I have given to you.

49:22 You know, I think that's a very good place to to stop here, Carsten. So thank you for taking us through your results and answering questions and Of taking us through a lot of the smaller steps and the different market. I think that helps kind of to understand it, and I think everybody understands that some of the larger contract that is, yeah, that that that can can have a longer timeline and can have a shorter timeline, nobody really knows. So so thank you, Carsten, and thank you to the audience for listening in and and getting a very lively debate through the the questions. May everybody have a nice day. Yeah. And reminder, keep keep writing on a chat forum. I see it. I I'm taking notice and I'm learning and checking on our social media. Please hook up to that. You get a lot more information. I know there was a question on on LinkedIn hires also. Yeah. Sorry.

50:08 Yeah. That I Yeah. We are we are hiring because we're growing, so we need we need more people to do different things, and we're investing more. So that is why. Perfect. Anyway, thank you. And then actually, you did my job one more time, Carsten. Thank you for that. Have a nice day.