Festivus with the Rest of Us Gold Developers

0:12 George, is that coffee nice? It's Excellent. Thank you. Thank you. That's good. That's good. We've lost Alex. The Internet couldn't deal with the T-shirt he was wearing. OK. We're going to we're going to crack on guys. So welcome everyone. Joining from far and wide wherever you're wherever you're listening or watching from. We've got a Festivus special today. We've got Patrick Downey, President and CEO of Ozone Gold Corp. Doug Ramshaw, President of Monero Alamos. It was all his idea or

0:43 fault, depending on how this goes. George Salamis, president and CEO of Integra Resources, and Alex Black, president and CEO of Rio2, will be joining us shortly, I promise. So Festivus is, just want to put this in context for everyone, OK, so this isn't going to be a usual panel, kind of like last year, slightly irreverent, slightly tongue-in-cheek in places, and at all times, brutally honest. So Festivus is a secular and non-commercial holiday.

1:09 So we're going to, and then it's a time to talk about good things and bad things. So I think today we've got our very own Grinch, Ebenezer Scrooge, Miss Havisham and Holden Caulfield joining us to share their thoughts and look back on 2020 and maybe 2021 I should say and into 2022. Welcome gentlemen, how are you? Thanks Matt.

1:35 We are going to maybe, I think we'll kick it off while we wait for Alex. And I'll just ask a really simple question. What happened to gold this year? I was told it was going to get to 3000. Doug? Yeah, I mean, looking at 2021, you know, 2020 obviously was the outbreak of the pandemic, but, you know, from the market's perspective, I think the mining sector is really well. I think at the beginning of the year, everyone was hoping to put 2020 in his rear view mirror. I think 2021 is that year we want to forget about 2020, so widening margin expansion, so all the majors were doing great with lower costs and record gold prices, and we've seen those contract.

2:19 George and I were talking off camera beforehand. I mean, every single ingredient for rising gold prices is here with us right now. And yet we're somewhat stalled. You know, It's hard to say without putting a tinfoil hat on, and I've chosen a different hat today as to why that is.

2:40 I think probably most of us would like to have 2020 back and 2021 in our rearview mirror. What do you make of it, Paddy? Yeah, well, look, I think that people thought that the government and everything was fixed and it was going to be great. And there was a little bit of more that the economy was picking up and this was happening and that was happening. So it put a bit of pressure on gold, but I think you're now seeing, I mean, there's a move today, you know, the Fed's going to increase rates over 3 times over the next year. Canadians the same, the amount of money that's been printed is crazy. I'm still very bullish on gold. I think there was a bit of a lid on it this year simply because people thought everything was fixed. We got vaccinated, some of us, I guess, and that

3:27 we got on top of this and everything was all great. And you can even see in the mining industry, it is not from an operational construction point of view, you're still seeing significant effects of COVID. And you can't tell me that there is not massive inflation out there. If you know, when you're, If you're importing foodstuffs that was costing you $2,600

3:50 for a 20 foot sea can to ship it is now costing you $18,000. Somebody's got to pay for that. And it's got to be the consumer. And at The big box stores have kept the lid on that. I know that for a fact, because I've got a neighbor who's a distributor. They've kept the lid on that and said, we're not gonna pay you the extra. You're gonna have to eat it. And so a lot of these guys have eaten it, but they're not gonna eat it anymore. And you're gonna see a lot of cost increases for the basket of inflation that goods that will occur. I mean, they'll

4:20 try and probably switch the goods to keep inflation down, but it is out there and the cost of living is going up. So yes, Gold had a little bit of a choppy year this year, but I truly think that next year is going to be a very, very strong year for gold. Right. Which is what we heard at the end of 2020 as well. But things didn't work out that way. And I do want to come to the inflation bit. You know, we have been printing money for fun. And George, what's your take on it?

4:46 Yeah. I mean, I share Doug's view. Gold's not following the playbook that it typically does. We've all seen a few cycles in our careers over the last 20, 30 years. This one is definitely different. As Doug pointed out, all of the factors are there in place for gold to be ripping down. And it's not.

5:13 You've got a resurgence of COVID. You've got borders shutting down. We're no longer just talking about transitory inflation. Inflation is here to stay. You've got China threatening, you've got Russia threatening, all of those factors should be adding up to gold ripping and it's not. And it feels to me like there's some manipulation there. And you know, I'm not a 10-12 hack specialist, but I do, it does smell of manipulation. From where though? Central banks, the Fed, those forces who want to keep a lid on gold. If gold unravels to the upside, I think it sets off an avalanche of other things And it speaks of their inability to potentially keep controls on economies and keep things on the straight and narrow. And I think if Gold is unleashed, I think it unleashes a whole bunch of other things that will speak to their lack of control.

6:19 Right. And so

6:20 what would those things be? I mean, Doug, I think we were talking about it off camera before. So what do you think that unravelling could look like?

6:28 Just maybe kind of the, you know, here's the window dressing aspect of what the central banks and the Fed want to show people of the world. Maybe they don't want people to look behind the curtain because behind that curtain, you know, could be quite ugly. What I'm trying to get out of anyone on the panel here is what do you think that world is that they don't want us to see? Because gold followed a basic set of rules, there was safe harbor investing, anti-fiat, etc. And that seemed to be the theme that was being thrown at me in 2020. Has anything changed?

7:12 I think gold might have somewhat followed its playbook. But I mean, I think if you look at the broader markets, you know, say the US equity markets and the like, would we really have, like going back 2 years with what happened with this pandemic, would we really have thought we'd seen the value, you know, and the Dow making record highs all the time with the contraction of the economy, with the implications of the supply chain and everything else. You know, there's lots of this talk about the everything bubble. You know, the gold market is a very small market, but you know, if you let the cat out of the bag, genie out of the box, whatever it is, it has the ability to be the pin to that very large everything bubble.

8:01 I mean, the one thing I'll say, kind of bringing it back to gold developers on this panel,

8:07 and just as a segue, is everyone on this panel, I believe, started their process with their current project, either building it, in the case of Patty, now building it with Alex since the last panel, he's got his funding package. George is still developing

8:27 in Idaho and us developing and producing. We all started these business models in a lower gold price environment to work in a lower gold price environment. I think I don't necessarily want to live in a $2,500 or $3,000 gold market. Maybe it comes, But our business plans weren't predicated on it.

8:50 And with the inflationary pressures, it sure is nice that we're seeing rising gold prices because there are going to be cost pressures for sure. But I'd be a lot more worried about assets that need higher gold prices to work. For sure. And we'll talk about those later, Doug. We'll talk about those later. I just want to bring Alex in while we've got him, because he may go again. And based on what he's wearing, perhaps he should. How am I going? Am

9:19 I joking?

9:22 It looks like interference. I've given everyone an easy layup question initially. And that was basically what's happened to gold. I was promised $3,000 gold back in 2020. It hasn't happened. Why do you think that's the case? Who promised you $3,000 gold? Lots of people on social media and fund managers. Stay off social media, Matt. Not good for you. We're going there later. I said we will talk about that later. But what do you think is going to happen to Gold in 2021?

9:58 You know, as I keep saying to people, And I'm sure most of the guys here would agree, we're mining guys. I mean, who knows what happens to gold, whether it's collusion against the price, whether it's manipulation, whether it's just reality and whatever. I mean, at the end of the day, we've got more to think about as CEOs of mine building companies than worry about the gold price. All we can do is control what we do on the ground. And I think people that are pining and talk about the gold price should be doing something else apart from running mining companies because they don't really know. That's my opinion. So I've got no idea what's happened to gold during 2021.

10:48 What I do know is that we had $1,250 there for about 5 years. We've now been at an average of somewhere between $750 and $1,800 for the last 2.5 years, I think it is. Got to be happy about that. And let's hope that continues or a new platform or bases form above $2,000. We just don't know. Okay. Well, look, we've got a Gold producer in the room, in the shape of Doug, soon to be with Patrick Downey,

11:20 soon to be with Alex Black. And George is going to work out whether he wants to continue drilling or get into production. That's an option that he's got available to him. So let's bring it back down to equity. So I think we're all in violent agreement that the gold price is good enough right now. You can make money at the at these prices. So what what are gold potential gold investors or gold investors doing at the moment. Are they distracted by digital gold. Our friend Bitcoin. Are they looking elsewhere. I mean what do

11:51 you put it down to? Why aren't equities taking off or haven't they been taking off the last 4 or 5 months for precious metals? Doug, let's kick off with you. Well, I mean, I'm not quite sure why the crypto crowd started their

12:05 drop gold campaign, except if they were trying to replace us. I don't think it will fully replace it. I think there's a place for some exposure there, but it's not, you know, both gold and crypto, if you're in that room, I mean, the battle is against fear, I guess, rather than against each other. So I find that noise and a distraction, but I think we gotta be, we gotta look at it and go, if crypto wasn't around, would gold have seen more capital inflows? Probably yes. In terms of what was the second part of your question? I'm sorry. I'd like to opine here, Matt, because, you know, we're in a competitive world, right? So we've got Bitcoin, we've got NFTs.

12:54 And I've got my own translation for that, but I'm not going to mention it right now. We've got this whole wave of green mail or green, I don't know what you call it, smokescreen, whitewash, but it can't be whitewash, it's gotta be greenwash. So,

13:13 going on and we're as a Gold business, a competitor with all that. And we've had this discussion before, but I think there's just not enough going on from a marketing perspective of our business. And I can talk about that in relation to what's happening here in Peru. For example, as you know, we've got a basket case government in place here. There's no clear direction as far as mining, you know, mining good, mining bad, closed mines, open mines, do whatever you want. It's just all over the place. But it's not until now that the mining industry starts to say, oh, well, look at all the hundreds of millions of dollars that you're missing out on, etc. They're saying that they're being reactive rather than proactive.

13:59 We have a mining association here in Peru that does nothing. But there's some big companies that are part of that. They should be advertising in a build up to elections, telling people on national TV, and maybe the gold business needs to do this as well in social media, national TV, telling everybody how how important mining is to all these fantastic

14:22 tech companies. Somebody said the other day, Apple's just hit 3 trillion dollars. Everything that Apple makes relies on the mining industry. Right. But that news about Apple becoming a $3 trillion company is headlines. But the fact that, you know, the rare earths, the metals that are used to make those iPads and iPhones and Mac, MacBooks and all those sorts of things are generated by us as a minor. So I don't think we promote ourselves enough. And you know the World Gold Council where are they? You know Alex I'm going to jump in there and congratulate you for transitioning to the true spirit of Festivus, which is the the airing of grievances.

15:11 And, you know, we've talked all we've talked before about about my one of my top pet peeves of our business is the way we communicate to our investors and the manner in which we do it.

15:26 World Gold Council, probably top of the list. Why are they not out there banging the drum constantly like the beers does in the diamond industry, like the crypto barons do on Reddit. We don't have anything like that. Nobody's banging the drum for us. That's problem number 1. Problem number 2 is the way we communicate to our investors is very old world. We're always talking in

15:56 ounces of gold per vertical meter on deposits and gallons of lubricants per lateral meter of drift and crap like that. We have to start talking to our investors like we are a true business that makes money. It doesn't matter. We don't have to break things down into that level of granularity when we're presenting to our investors. And I think that's what we need to do. I like that. I like that because I quite often say to CEOs, you know, your admin doesn't concern me. What concerns me is what are you doing about the share price and what are the strategies which are gonna enable you to drive that? And certainly in a more open, honest conversation is always welcome. But demystify it, guys. You don't need to say you're clever.

16:42 We get it. But you do need to deliver. So I couldn't agree with you more. But can I come back to the Gold Council? So, what is the Gold Council's remit? Who pays them? How do they make money? Or what are they meant to do? Well, you become a member. All the big miners are members of—all the big gold miners are members. You know, Randy Smallwood happens to be the chairman. You know, I don't want to be tough on Randy. He just gave us a nice gold stream through Wheaton Precious Metals. But, you know, Randy, you know, you've got to get up, you know, the clacker of those guys that are on your board, etc. And get something moving because, you know, social media is a huge platform.

17:21 You've got nobody in the World Gold Council that knows anything about social media, because you're not there, right? You need

17:29 to get with the 21st century and get in there and promote our business. We do it at a micro level, at our individual levels, but somebody's got to do it from a grand level and nobody's doing it. Because they're funded by the gold companies, these companies are awash with money. It's not as though they can't afford it, right? So

17:52 that's the Gold Council. I think- But just quickly, I mean, the Gold Council spend a lot of money promoting gold, but we know nothing about it. I mean, here are we, you know, the backbone of the business. I mean, they rely on us to find and hopefully develop projects. Most of us have sold into the majors, et cetera. But we don't really know what they do and we don't know where the money's going, but we should all be linked together. I mean, why have a World Gold Council acting on its own when it's so easy to broaden that platform in a social media context, where people like us or people who work for us can link into things to other people and get the message out? I bet you ask 40 people in the street, who's the World Gold Council? They've got no goddamn idea who they are, or what they do, or anything about them. But there's a lot of us out there, a lot of people who work with us, who do have a social media platform, who could get linked to it. And it could, you know, see what the World Gold Council did here.

18:48 I don't know what they do, to be honest with you. I really don't know. I know Randy very well. Great guy. But I don't know what the work and what they spend their money on in terms of promoting gold as a business. But I think just getting back to what you said something, Alex, and I was I didn't go into mining because of gold. I went into mining because it was a job and I get into it. And you so you happen to be doing gold mining. But the first thing I learned 1 one guy told me says there's 2 things you should know about gold. Number 1, you don't have to put it in the shelf with a price tag on it, waiting for somebody to buy it and hopefully you're going to, you know, you don't have it, it's gone. It's in an instant market.

19:30 Secondly, I don't know what the price is. So I don't know what the price of gold is. I don't know what the price of gold is going to be. I can plan accordingly, but it's your input costs. And we had not paid a lot of attention to that. We bullshitted the market with cash costs, but all in sustaining costs. And even all in sustaining costs these days are truly, really, you know. So, you know, now I think people are, you know, have cleaned up the balance sheet. If you look at Australia, these guys, they got out of it before we did. They cleaned up their balance sheets, they cleaned up their costs, they got rid of projects and properties that were not fundamentally profitable. They don't have the competition in that ASX, such as cannabis, crypto or whatever else that we have. And their stocks have performed way better than the GDX or anybody else. But they've done a good job of it. They've returned something to the shareholders and done a good job of it. We have to get there, we have to start fighting those other parts of the market so that we can get our elbows in and show that we do a good job but we have to do a good job, that's the problem. In the past there's been too many failures. You saw another one yesterday in the junior mid-tier sector of a $400 million project now $700 million.

20:39 Well, let's see what's going on. There's a bunch of stuff there, but let's bounce around and make sure we get time and a little bit of commentary from everyone here, which is something that George mentioned, you know, in terms of price, maybe perhaps price has been controlled somewhat, but in an inflationary environment when everything else is going up in price. Why wouldn't commodities also follow suit and go up in price? Because you've got to be rewarded for your labours. And if your input costs are going up, why shouldn't you be rewarded for that? Well, we've seen that to some extent. I mean, Alex made the point, like we had 4 or 5 years of low gold prices and the majors certainly rationalize their operations to deal with that. So in 2020, and with the outperformance in the market, the GDX, which we haven't seen this year, we saw this huge margin expansion, You know, and now in this, you know, so, so if you just strip out the fact that the cost element has been delayed and now we're seeing it through, I mean, gold did have a lift. We've seen copper have a lift, you know, we've even, even a metal like zinc has had a bit of a lift. So we're seeing it, you know, is it stratospheric?

21:53 Like, you know, Friedland says, well, you know you're gonna need a telescope to see where, you know to see how far copper is going. I don't know about that, but certainly, certainly we've seen a rise in commodity prices. Now we're just dealing with like the buzzwords from the last quarterly reporting season was cost inflation. And when you look at that, you realize why this year the equity market is has not been good.

22:19 I want to talk specifically about, OK, if there's been demand growth in metals, where there's infrastructure behind it, EV revolution, all those sorts of things, I can understand that, right? There's a big demand driver there. With gold, you don't have, it's not the same. Right. So how does the gold market work? Can it be more transparent or as George says, is it just controlled by central banks in which case you get what you're given?

22:47 I mean, for me, the one thing I haven't worried about is the gold price. Honestly, like, you know, we've had a very healthy moving gold price. You know, I think there are a lot of poorly run operations out there that suggested that we needed that 1600 should be the floor. But it's not. We you know, there were well-run companies were making money at $1300. So the last thing I worry about is the gold price. And I think the last thing they should consume my management time is the gold price. It's about building businesses that can work in wherever the gold price is going. That was part of the problem with our sector, was for the longest time, the bottom line of a company's operating performance was the least important metric and it should be the most important.

23:34 So, and this gets back to bad management, poor execution and everything else. And a lot of it's now gonna get kind of blamed on cost inflation, whereas probably there were projects that should never have started going down that path to be built. But it will be blamed on cost inflation now. So don't worry too much about gold price. The current one we've got, even if it dropped $150 an ounce, is a very healthy gold price. OK, so let's pick up on what Paddy said. You know, we're talking about Argonaut. Argonaut Gold was the reference there, if anyone read that yet.

24:09 Their capex has gone from 400 to 1,100, broadly speaking. CEO gets fired as a result, maybe Chairman, I can't remember quite what it said, Gareth Paul gets fired. Do we think we're going to see more of this as people genuinely struggle to manage cost inflation or get found out? What do you think? Okay, let Richard. Do you want to go, Paddy? Okay, go for it. Well, There's cost inflation. We all know it. But there's also attention to detail. And these guys are experienced people. Pete Daugherty is no mug. But you look at where the numbers are and it obviously was lack of information in terms of the usual killer on a project. Earthworks, like your tailings dam, your site earthworks, everything has gone up because you've scrimped on some of your geotech work and not planning

25:04 properly and not planning accordingly and things like that. So, I mean, we continue to make these repeat mistakes. It drives me nuts. I mean, you know, somebody said, well, I've only moved the middle 10 meters. Yeah, But how do you know the rock or whatever is the same there? You don't. So you should do the work and just drill a hole or whatever it takes. Spend $10,000 saving yourself $15M potentially. But, Paddy, you've got a heap leach project, right? No, it's a tank leach. It's a mill and everything that goes with it. It's, it's a, it's a CRX. The CAPEX? The CAPEX in the study is 153 million and we're probably going to come in around 148,149.

25:50 Well, you know, Doug and I are fortunate because we've got some very simple projects. But we get canned a bit because we've got these big, large disseminated ore bodies that are 0.5 gram and people go, oh, you know, why are you bothering that? You know, Alex, can I just stop you there? I'll tell you a little story about that. We're doing Festivus, I guess. I started my career at Bottle Reefs Underground and we got 12 grams a ton every day. And we just made money and nobody, it just was, it just did what it did. You know, there's lots of learning to go on and it was a great place and blah, blah, blah. Then I got asked to come up, I was a reasonably, you know, well thought of young engineer and to come up and work on a new project. And it was Kaling's Reclamation.

26:35 And it was half of a gram. And

26:38 I sort of went, well, what do you mean, half of a gram?

26:41 And the guy said, yeah, and we get 50% recovery. I said, 0.25? How do we make money at this? This is, you know, I didn't say most of it, but my boss, but, and he told me, and it was all about efficiency of moving material, people movement. You look at everything at the bottom line. I always build costs from the bottom up. So what does it take me to move something? And, and, you know, there was a, it was a great paper given on how did, how do you knock off heat bleach versus, versus, you know, tank bleach and heat bleach was really for Nevada. It was like, You don't want to crush grind something that's hard that you can get the 65% recovery out of when you could save yourself $200 million on CapEx plus plus and OpEx. So there's a great, you know, you should look at all those formulas and baseline. It's not about, yeah, grades great, but it's about the unit cost to do it and you look at something like marigold which is like point something of a gram

27:41 and everybody thought it wouldn't work but it was a run of mine heat bleach and it never stopped making money, never stopped making money. We got one of those. But originally, but originally, it was a metal and it never made a penny. Yeah, no, but what I'm getting at something that listeners should be thinking about gold is a, you know, relatively simple business, because you have got these style of deposits like the large, low grade disseminated deposits that Doug and I are working that can be leached in a heap. So it's just an earth moving exercise. To your extent, Paddy, where you've got a CIL plant, which is relatively simple as well. Apart from the tailings deposition, you better get that right. That's where Magino went wrong. So, But the beautiful thing about the gold business is it's relatively simple. And don't always look for grade. Right. I'm talking to the investors now. Don't always look for grade because look at pure gold. Look at hard gold. Look at look at some of those underground shows that and Predium to a certain extent, although Predium is getting taken out now.

28:49 Very very difficult. So you might have high-grade and who knows about Great Bear, right? The jury is still out there. But just because you've got high-grade doesn't mean it's simple. So I think... Well, Alex, maybe let's take a bit of a tangent here on breaking down those high-grade ore bodies that you mentioned. And this gets back to another pet peeve of mine, and given that it is Festivus, I'll air this grievance, which is there used to be a time, and at the beginning of my career, I worked on one of these where you would go underground on a hike and develop a high grade ore body. Investing public would give you 2 years to get it right. In other words, they are off your case, off your back completely. They gave you 2 years to make something of it, make money mining underground.

29:41 Now, and I think Pretium suffered from this. They're probably one of the first big examples of this. Predium were dissected, sliced and diced on a monthly basis. Oh, they're not making their head grades. The resource model is not up to scratch with what the feasibility study was portraying. And that happens everywhere, as you know, on every project that I've ever worked on. But Investing Public in the past were far more forgiving of those stories. They honestly and truthfully gave you 2 years to get your act together. Now companies are being judged on a monthly basis. What's the head grade at this month? You know, are they making any profits this month? And I believe that's due to the information age and media. And that's a sad thing. Predium eventually got it right. Right. Yeah, they were off, you know, 20, 30 percent on their grade, but they still made a lot of money.

30:42 But they were punished for a very long time. I believe stories like Pure Gold, probably the same case. There are other examples of high-grade miners there who are being judged on the same monthly increments that really shouldn't be, because it takes time to bed these things down. But they're being judged and valued in equal measure. There are companies that have benefited from short term, I'm talking 3, 4 month gains, super gains. And they come back down the other side at an equal speed and then they've got a job to do. They've got to either play catch up or they've got to backfill valuation or they've got a whole bunch of different problems because of something I want to talk about, given it's the first of us. And I would love your views on it, which is these armchair analysts, armchair warriors, armchair newsletter writers. What do they do for you?

31:28 What do you think, Alex? 0. They do nothing. Unfortunately, you know, social media is full of them. They drag along the punters who really don't have a lot of experience in most cases. And unfortunately, they drag them in directions that benefit themselves. Right. For me, it's, you know, the good thing is you've got guys like ourselves who are on social media that people can come to for some advice as well. And I give a lot of advice to people just about what to be looking for in respect to investments they might be making, the simplicity of operations, the management teams, etc., etc.

32:16 So, yeah, those guys, you know, they're in it for themselves in most cases. There are some very good ones, but there's a lot of bad ones, in my opinion. Doug? Yeah, I mean, you know, there are some out there that like to think that all deposits are some geometry shape that they studied at school and deposits aren't formed that way. And the in-situ value analysis has gone crazy on Twitter as an example of late that just leaves me, you know, I saw 1 the other day, I'm a shareholder of the company, but I saw this analysis being done by someone who I don't know their credentials or whatever. And it was the most absurd thing that I've seen in a long time.

33:10 There have been plenty of examples this year for it to be judged against. But you've also seen it with companies as well, which I think of misused equivalencies. And I've got me a culprit on this one because, you know, I say, depending on, well, no, a few years back we had our Divisadero a whole and I don't know what I was thinking on this discovery hole in the Visadero where we listed the gold, which was nice, listed the silver grade, which was fine, where gold heap leach, you're not expecting much in the way of recoveries there. And there was a copper component as well. And don't know what I was drinking that day, not eggnog, but I put a gold equivalency there that I really shouldn't have done. I should have just stood on it 0.8 of a gram gold from the heat bleach component and the copper mineralization wasn't something bothering us on that heat bleach for it.

34:03 And we were wrong in that regard. But I mean, I see it routinely in that, you know, there are companies out there promoting pretty much the periodic table of elements to come up with an equivalent grade, and it's misleading, you know, including metal, like, we've got to do better. Maybe we should be calling it out more, but certainly when we've made mistakes before, it's like, excuse my language, think about it and make sure I don't make that mistake again. And so there's lots we can opine on that. I just want to, one last point on what George was saying, and I think this is the information age, and people wanting, we've got shareholders that want news now, you know, you put out results, when are the next ones coming? And that kind of the flow of news, I think you've seen companies and looking at us as a group of either in production now or going through ramp up or developing minds, There is so much pressure on companies, I think, because we've seen examples of it, to meet that deadline of putting out that press release of commercial production, just like 1st gold. I congratulated Jason Simpson the other day on his symbolic 1st gold at Orla, because really, 1st gold, that's all it is.

35:19 You still haven't proven that the project works consistently over time. That's a ramp-up phase. A lot of commercially, a lot of companies have have jumped to say we're in commercial production and have subsequently had to do multiple financings thereafter, which I think kind of defeats the premise of commercialization. And so, you know, from us, from Monero's perspective, we, you know, will declare commercial production when we're good and ready. You know and I think that this this element of armchair analysts or just people wanting information every time that I push some companies into getting ahead of themselves on such declarations and when things go awry on those then it has you know it's just a further black mark on our sector.

36:04 And what about you, Harry? You've got Vanessa the Great doing your bidding on social media, but do you ever look at it and wonder what's going on? Well, I just want to back up. This is Festivus, as we say, as a grievance. And I just see a number of comments here. And I see Mark Turner's making a comment that we as CEOs, or it's always somebody else's fault. We're not saying it's any, we're actually running our companies. We're not saying it's anybody else's fault, whether we're not successful. The success or failure of our companies relies on us and our teams. And we're talking about some of the key issues that are bad for the business and the business as a whole. We can't change the price of gold, but we look at projects that are developed and we go, well, should they truly be developed? I mean, they haven't done their homework. They haven't done the type of work that needs to be done.

36:49 They put out a feasibility study that really is wrong. I can't, I'm just telling you what I think is some, some what wrong with the business. And if I would answer someone like Mark is, I mean, I would take the criticism for somebody who's actually built something or found something, but maybe Mark, you haven't, but we have. But we're not criticizing the or pointing fingers. We're talking about what we believe are wrong for the business. And it's it's developing projects that shouldn't be developed or, you know, putting your other people's capital into your project that shouldn't be there. We all own big pieces of our own company. So we're going to fall or die by our own skill set, our own management capabilities, etc. But at the end of the day, the business is the business. It's a risky business.

37:36 It's difficult to do. You've got to do your homework. You've got to put the right team together. You've got to be on top of it. And, you know, continually making mistakes is not going to fix the business. Yeah, And I think, you know, trying to keep things simple, once again, from an investor perspective, if a gold company has a starter project that they can get going for relatively low CapEx and then expand from there. That's a good feature of the gold business. That's what Doug, myself are doing. I think you're doing the same, Patty. You know, getting started. I mean, there's not too many base metal projects or any other type of commodity that you can build for under 150 million bucks. Right. So that's the beautiful thing about gold. But I just want to swing it back to Matthew, because I think some of the people here want to hear about us.

38:31 And rather than us pining about how wonderful we are, because, you know, you're going to get the same from all of us, is what feedback are you getting, Matthew, from your Crux club in respect to each of our companies. What are the key comments about Monero, Alamos, Rio2, ITR or Orzone that you're getting from your members? Well, no, no. And I'm not going to blow smoke up anyone's ass here either, because, you know, it's, we've got different types of investors looking at you guys at the different stages that we've been following you for, and you've all been on a journey.

39:18 You know, obviously, Doug, you've gotten into production. You've kind of proved that you could. And most people on this panel have built minds before. You've created wealth before. You've made people money before. So I think people will always start with the management team and say, can I follow these guys into battle? Yeah, you'll sort of tick that box. So that's a big first hurdle to overcome. And then it's been a case of how you've told your stories. And yes, we get feedback every day of the week on all of the companies that we interview. And we are quite candid with our members as to what we say about you guys, too. So you're all at slightly different stages. I mean, the one that, OK, Alex, I love everything about you except your dress sense.

40:05 I'm really, we are all, I think the members and myself, especially, very keen to sort of see, now that you're fully funded, how quickly you can get this thing into production, and more importantly, up and running at nameplate capacity. And obviously Patrick's really, really, really close to doing that and Doug can tick a big box there. And George, big question for you guys is, which way are you gonna go? Do you keep drilling? Do you keep doing what you're doing at the moment? Or do you work towards getting into production? So, you know, just without breaking it down, I'm giving you my new show analysis right now. It's like, you've all done a great job at the stages that you're at. It's been appreciated by certainly our members because we like good, strong, fundamental stories, right? We're not into promotion. We're not into the BS that we saw in 2020. We want companies which are real, we want management teams to say what they do and do what they say.

41:06 You guys have all done that at every stage, certainly with the conversations that we've been involved with. So it's been enjoyable watching. You've all got a lot more to do. I'm going to get into the festivus role because I wanted to use this occasion to make an announcement on behalf of Rio2. And we've learned a lot from what's happened over the last month or 2, And particularly from the Great Bear transaction. So we at Rio2, as everybody knows, we've got 5Moz M&I, 1.4Moz of interred, etc. We're actually going to retract those resources and reserves. And we're going to go to 0. So forget the 5Moz, we're 0.

41:52 And the reason why is we're just like Great Bear. And we want to be like Great Bear. The other thing we want to do is restate all our drilling that was done yonks ago, 2010 to 2014. We're going to restate all that just so everybody gets a view of what this thing looks like. We're going to keep drilling. We're not going to build the mine. I'm just announcing that we're not going to build Phoenix. So it's off. We've called it off. We're just going to keep drilling. I'm not a geologist. I don't know what we're going to be drilling, but we'll be drilling. And the mine Phoenix will be built in 10 years. Right. So don't worry. It'll be built. But in 10 years. OK. It's all about. That's my big announcement for this.

42:37 This presentation and Alex. Alex Alex. Alex. You missed 1 one important aspect, which is not only do I applaud you for for for doing that but you should have also said that you're setting up your drill on the same section and redrilling the same intercept 10 times in a row. You you missed that 1 Alex. Look, We've got Doug sitting there in the background. He's very, I mean, and you know, he's there for Monero Alamos, not for Great Bear, but it's good to have these sorts of tongue in cheek jokes. Doug, he doesn't mean it. He doesn't mean it. We're not gonna piss on you, Doug, don't worry. I'm gonna keep my mouth somewhat shut, but what I will say on that is it's been an absolute privilege to work on something which has generated the kind of wealth that can be life-changing to shareholders. And I think as CEOs, that's something that I think we all hold dear. We align ourselves with our shareholders. We work, make them money. And selfishly, it makes us money too.

43:43 I know of people whose lives have been changed. And I posted this on LinkedIn the other day. Back in the early part of my career, I saw Arrowkeeper go from 30 cents to 30 bucks. I didn't think at the time about how that must have felt as a management and what money they made on their options or whatever, I did think about, wow, look at the wealth generation for shareholders. That's something we should be hammering home on a daily basis of why people should be investing in our sector. The funny thing is, when that, like back in the mid 90s, when I was an analyst, every company had 20 million shares out. If you got to 30 or 40, there'd be people with pitchforks and torches at your door asking you to roll it back.

44:29 It was a different era. We saw those headlines in the, in the, what was the financial post at the time in the Globe and Mail, whether it be ABBA or Diamant or Arrowkeeper or Diamondfields. We made headlines because stock charts showed that wealth generation that was transformational for so many people. And then over the years we've started, you know, having companies with, you know, I have 400 million shares out, so I can hardly talk, but hundreds of millions of shares out, vehicles that are starting with 50 million out as the shell, you know, that reduces the ability to have that genuine talk on a stock. So when the LP, oh, sorry, when the hinge zone hit happened, the company had 20 million shares out and it got me kind of misty-eyed and nostalgic for the days in the 1990s, because it jumped from 50 cents to 2 bucks. And I saw people saying, oh, I've missed it already. They wouldn't think it was still only a 40 million market cap company. The one other thing that I always wondered about Great Bear, because of the quality of data that Chris Taylor and Bob Singh put out and disclosed on the website and everything was there's enough data there for anyone to model 1 prior to the post-BREEX world, you know, all those transactions were being done on companies that didn't necessarily have some 43 101 we pop because 43 101 didn't exist so so it really is a throwback story to a period and maybe it seems unusual now because We've lived in a different world for the

46:00 last 2 decades a world that actually makes it very hard at times. I understand why the rules are in place. It's to stop the charlatans. Unfortunately, the charlatans come up with new games to get around that and to promote their stocks. But it has hampered, I think, the ability for us to tell stories with the regulatory oversight that hits mining, that doesn't on cannabis, doesn't on all these other sectors. And this is now my 1 grievance I'll come up with. The TSX, our shareholders, people who build these companies jump from whatever hot sector to whatever hot sector there there is. You know Covid comes along. It was all the Covid testing. You know BS plays. You know we. That's That's an unfortunate indictment of our retail. And I'm glad that we've got people on this call and people that do still invest in our sectors.

46:53 But it is problematic when you have cannabis companies that were able to come out and project years of revenues and huge of nothing. And mining companies are so restricted in being able to tell a story. That's all we're looking to do is tell a story. We want it grounded on fact. But The grounding in 43-101 makes it very hard to have champions like there are in other sectors who have an ability to free wheel on whatever they say. Rant over. Here's a question for you Doug. So Doug, no one's actually seen Chris Taylor since he's gone and he's voted to accept the offer. We just wondered where he is. He's actually duct taped up, covered under my stairs. I will try to get him with a photo of today's newspaper for you. Right. Good. Good. It was a unanimous vote, I'm assuming, was it? It was a unanimous vote. Yeah. And then he was on the conference call with Mr. Rowlandson and championed the transaction that was announced. But yeah, as it said in the press release, it was unanimous.

48:05 There are lots of investors questioning that. I'm not quite sure what to say. But yeah, no, we're all locked up and supportive of the deal. I heard he was apartment hunting in Monaco, but that's just a rumor. Patrick, I know you're slightly time-constrained, you need to be elsewhere. Your thoughts on Orzone for next year? Do you want to leave us with some thoughts, given everyone's- Well, just before I go into that, the other thing we've got to realize in our business is that the shareholders change all the time. I mean, you've got guys who are in at the early stage, you get guys who, we're not making a widget and putting it on a shelf or we're not making an iPhone or whatever.

48:53 Some of it becomes the big dream thing, other ones it's the takeout thing, you know. So we are changing our shareholders and rolling over a lot of our shareholders all the time as we develop our companies, develop our projects and then we are competing with other guys in the market such as cannabis and crypto and whatever else. So it's a very difficult market to constantly keep shareholders satisfied in it, it really is. I think as Alex says, you've just got to stick to your net and keep, you know, you've got a business plan, there's something you're going to do and I love his business plan, his new one, just sit there and do nothing and hopefully something happens. But I'm not that sure. But for our zone, look, you know, obviously Q3 is a huge time for us. We're going to be dug at 1st gold.

49:41 And we have to put those sort of things out. And people, I saw a question here. Why do we, you know, another thing is, you know, you have to put those sort of things out because people expect that, you know, that you've got 1st gold. So obviously the circuit is working. It actually is working. There's gold in the ground. It is working. You know, we have a ramp up to commercial production. We're seeing 3 months. I'm very confident it'll be a month simply because of the type of ore body it is and the way the mines we built. Extreme cost pressure out there, guys. I mean, this new variant has definitely got people thinking again. A lot of our stuff is on the, on ships and on boats, but stuff isn't. And we're constantly playing around. And it's still very, very difficult to keep on top of things. You've got to be on a constant, constant basis.

50:32 How will it affect construction? Hopefully not much. I don't see it at this point in time. You know, we're well ahead of where we thought we expected to be. So I think our zone will be in great shape. What we are planning to do is, you know, We did a lot of drilling in 2020. We did a new resource model. So we're planning to come out with a new life of mine plan and an expansion, so that our shareholders know where that could go and where we think the project will be going at the end of the day. Simply because at the time, we didn't have a lot of money to do. Well, we really had to get the project, as Alex says, you build it on a shoestring. Not that we did it on a shoestring, but you build it to get it going. And then you can start looking at where the next steps are. So it's great. I mean, one thing I love, you know, I love about where I am and where I'm at. I mean, when I go to visit that project, the amount of fun I have with the local communities, being out there, the support that we have from these guys is incredible.

51:28 And we're in a difficult country. Burkina is not an easy place. You know, the politics are, you know, people are wondering what's going on in there, but I can tell you where we are. And we're now building these study rooms for the, for the children so they can study at night. Just going out there, we had the EU and the, and whatever, they came especially to visit Orezone. Orezone, what the hell did they come to visit Orezone for? Because they looked at some of the programs that we were doing and some of the things that we are up to. And they're telling us that senior mining companies are doing that, which shocks me and actually disappoints me. So one thing that I also look forward to for 2022 and beyond is the things that we are doing for the local communities and the employment that we're bringing. Those 3 brand new restaurants have opened there for all the local workers. They don't go wherever.

52:16 We specifically said, we'll help you set up the restaurants. We could feed them in our canteen, but we didn't do that. We helped the local ladies, we provided the ones with some equity, and now they're feeding 400 people in 3 restaurants. And that's a lot of income for those guys. So that's the sort of thing that I love about the business as well. It's not just creating wealth for the shareholders, it's creating wealth for your stakeholders. And it's a lot of fun to be quite frank with you. Okay, and so, Patti, I do wanna give people the chance to sort of talk a little bit about their companies before we go. But it's a big topic that we, well, it's very hot at the moment. And I think people have got very extreme views on it, which is ESG. And some CEOs say, look, we've always been doing it just under a different banner. The good companies have always been conscious of the value of it and the fact that we should put money and time and attention to it or else things go horribly wrong. So, Alex, What are your thoughts on that? Obviously, you've seen things happening in Peru and Chile and South America broadly, what was the sort of South American bent on ESG?

53:26 Yeah, I mean, look, I think it's been hyped up a lot as a person that's been in this business for a long time. You know, like you said in your first statement, a lot of us have been doing it for a long time. So what I see the focus should be and what we're doing as a company, for example, is just making our internal reports more accessible to investors. So there are platforms, software platforms, et cetera, that allow that to happen, but nothing's changed, right? From the point of view of our business. But you know there's been a lot of hype. You know a lot of I mean people talking about green copper and then green gold and then somebody you just mentioned to me earlier on green iron ore. I mean, that's all bollocks.

54:18 At the end of the day, as a management team, you look at ways of gaining efficiencies with your project. So that's using alternate fuels, doing things in a more environmentally sensible way. Like, for example, in our case, we're working on ways to replace carbon in our process with polymers. We're doing that with 6 Wave. If it works, it works. And if it's cost effective, it'd be great. Get the carbon out of the system. But we were going to do that anyway before this ESG push came along. But what worries me is when people put out these glossies about how wonderful, you know, Barrick's one of those companies. I mean, they don't make any announcements about buying anybody these days. They talk about how wonderful their ESG is because they've got nothing else to talk about.

55:09 And, you know, I've seen their track record here in Peru and it's woeful. So, you know, people put this gloss around. I was with a company, I was taken over by a company called Tahoe Resources. They spent weeks preparing, then it was CSR reports. And, you know, they got kicked out of Guatemala because their social capability and track record was 0. Although if you read their reports, you would think they're one of the best companies out in the world. So I think investors need to have access to what management are doing. They can talk to management about the various programs they've got going in place, like Paddy's just talked about his social activities. You know, obviously, he's probably doing some stuff on the environmental side as well that is noteworthy.

55:58 And that's it. But just keep it low key. I mean, it's too much hype. And then a Cisco going out and raising $250 million to put together a Cisco Green Acquisition Limited to go and buy companies that are green. Come on. You know, come on. That's all I can say. So Alex's point is touching on ESGA. The most important, I know we put slides in the deck, actually I've got slides to go in my deck. Those slides are for the investment community and I understand that there are more and more funds want to see that the company's doing it. So they want to see some evidence of it. What's really important to me is what you do at the, you know, what you're doing at the site level, not necessarily what you're doing on your website.

56:45 And, you know, that social license, you know, sure, you can advertise and I think it's right to do so, but I think it can be overdone by some serial abusers of it as well. But I think there should be investor oversight on it because we've seen some pretty brutal examples of damage to not just the environment, to look at Rio in Australia with the destruction of those sacred sites. You know, I think there should be oversight to stop that. There are enough resources that we can do it in an environmentally sensitive manner. And so a certain amount of oversight's good. But I know, for example, I built 1 mine, gonna build 2 more over the next few years. My carbon footprint's going up, regardless.

57:39 And yet I'm gonna be baselined now, next year, in ESG questionnaires that I'm given by institutions at a particular level, and then on subsequent years, it's going to go up. Is that a reflection on our approach to the environment or on our approach to building a multi-mine business? But what is becoming, and this one, probably for George actually, because, you know, at the stage you're at, and potentially you may want to go and raise capex for your project, depending on where, which direction you go is that the funds are demanding it, the funds are demanding ESG compliance, it's, you know, lots of boxes to tick in terms of meeting their criteria. And it's getting that. And I think that the institutions and the funds need to get the balance between being serious about it and just playing the game for their shareholders.

58:28 Because we've seen a case, 2 whistleblowers recently in the Uranium space, who have stepped forward to the SEC and complain about the greenwashing that was going on in both of their funds. So there's the industry more broadly not just mining but in terms of the all the players in that arena need to be more responsible and be more honest about what it is that they're trying to do and not just some trade or some sort of game. Greenwashing applies, the potential of greenwashing applies to all of the players. So for you, George, you've got to be slightly cognizant of ESG because you may need to go and get some car packs. Like how do you play the game? Right, yeah. And Matt, this is a big point of frustration for me personally. And first off, I'm with Alex. ESG is the same thing as CSR 10, 15 years ago, as was the same thing as sustainability studies and reviews before that. It's all about doing the right thing in the end of the day. And that's what we have to do, period, full stop, as builders of resource assets.

59:37 Getting back to my point of frustration has been, when we set out to go down the path of looking to build an asset in southwestern Idaho. We were doing so unwillingly under the premise of we need to really beef up our ESG strategy and team. And if you do that, It's kind of a field of dreams, a movie moment where build it and they will come in terms of the investment community and those bespoke investors who are apparently out there searching for companies like us to invest in who had a strong ESG platform. My point of frustration is we haven't seen them. They haven't shown up. I won't mention any names about certain funds who apparently need to invest in only those companies who have a strong ESG platform. Again, not mentioning any names.

1:00:33 Showing up on calls with them with a bespoke presentation talking about ESG and nothing but, only to hear, sorry, we don't care about that stuff. Tell me, where's the juice? Where's the beef? How much gold do you have? When are you going to be in production? And so that's a point of frustration. I hope that they show up and I hope that they show up soon because companies like Integra will be counting on them. I mean, Paddy, just I mean, again, I know you've got it. You definitely got to go in a second. So one more question for you is you got your funding in place. You managed to get your long lead items, you know, ordered. But you have to go around Africa and raise money locally there. Did they worry about the ESG component? Were there- Oh yeah, honestly, that was actually one of the key reasons that that bank came on board. We didn't know how much they actually knew about our project, but from the point of view of the work that we were doing with the communities, one of the key things they said, because they don't want problems. They do not want issues in country. That's absolutely not what they want.

1:01:42 And they've got a retail, they'll be tired with a bad project and something going wrong. But they come in and spent quite a bit of time. And they asked for absolute free access so that we weren't doing the tour with them. They were driving around, talking to people, looking at some of the stuff, getting a feeling for the project, et cetera. So for them, they weren't putting it in unless they felt comfortable that we were not going to cause any issues, that we had strong support from the communities, and that we were doing the right type of programs. They didn't understand all the programs we were doing. To be frank, we went through a lot of it separately, but that for them was an absolute first issue. We don't have that, we're not putting money in. Did that feel more real though, than maybe some of the other conversations you're having elsewhere, i.e. Firms looking into Africa?

1:02:32 Oh, 100%. Some of the banks that we were at, they were asking for, they were asking for third parties to provide a report who were working in Italy and writing stuff and doing a gap analysis on some thing. And they'd never visited the project. And they were telling me, artisanal miners and what, well, come down and look at what we're doing and see what we're doing and how we're doing it, as opposed to writing some paragraph that is meaningless that somebody picks up and goes, oh, are you not doing anything with artisanal miners? What are you doing with them? Yeah. You know, what are you talking about? You know, you know, so yes, you know, the banks, a lot of the big banks want this third party report that somebody wants to charge you 100 grand for to sit on their desk and say they did it, never to be open to gain, by the way. Yeah. And whereas these guys, you know, come in and out on the project on a regular basis.

1:03:23 But for me, it's gotta be that you as a company must do it. I mean, stop saying you're gonna do. I mean, I think Alex is right. Lunatics are taking over the asylum in some cases where they're doing these ESG reports and debt. And really, are they doing anything? No. You ask some of the barrack people about a project, they go, sorry, what are we doing there? Well, I see your report. Are we doing that? I didn't know we were doing that. I think it's a frustration. I've got a friend who runs a rather large fund. It's over 1 trillion dollars. And having dinner with him the other night, and he was saying to me, he is pulling his hair out because he's being asked to rebatch A lot of the funds that he manages with this ESG label. And he said, it's the same product, it's the same fund.

1:04:10 It doesn't make any sense to me. And it's not real. And that's what I wondered. I mean, obviously, Doug, you're down in South America, Alex down in South America. Yeah, you get why? Why aren't more local banks get doing more for you guys? Well, I'll just speak for us. I mean, you know, we we are doing our senior secure debt through BNP Paribas. BNP Paribas, even though they're a French-based bank, have done a lot of business in Chile and in LATAM in general. So they may not be a resident bank, but they certainly are a bank that's done a lot of business in the region. And, you know, obviously, from our perspective, from a financing perspective, it was about getting through as quickly as we could to a financing decision. So maybe we could have wooed some of these more local companies or banks, but it may have taken us a longer time. What about you, Doug?

1:05:11 Well, we, I mean, we weren't conventional, right? So, you know, we took some, We elected a different stage of company at the time, very different markets. We took a combination of some equity and a royalty on Santana rather than have debt. And, you know, we're not a burst of debt. Our next bill, Cerro de Oro, it's probably a $25 million bill and we'll take that on for that, absolutely. But it's a lot easier for us to make that election once we're cash flowing at Project 1. So we'll probably experience, even though the quantum is so much lower, we'll probably experience the same kind of degree of oversight on that stuff. And I mean, you know, you have to, so long as that oversight is on what you're doing right and what every company should be doing, regardless of our feelings towards how some of this stuff is being labelled to other sets of investors investing in these funds. So long as we know in our heart of hearts, we're doing right on environmental grounds and social grounds at the project level, then I think that's what 1 needs to focus on. And that should come through to an investor.

1:06:26 Okay. Well, guys, I think it's almost time to wrap up now. So I'm going to let you each sort of maybe blast out a few bullet points on your projects for 2022 and why people listening to this should be looking to invest in your company if they're not already. George, I'm going to kick off with you. Sure. So early 2022, study due out, pre-feasibility study. 2022 is also going to be a big year for us in terms of the big amounts of work required to get the project permitted. So according to the timeline that we have as of today, we're 3 years out from a record of decision. Don't see any major hurdles sitting in front of us between here and there. And while we do that, obviously, one of the hallmarks of Integra is to explore and to drill a lot. And we will continue to do that through 2022.

1:07:17 So essentially de-risking strategies with pre-feasibility studies onwards to permits and growing the resource with exploration. Okay. Alex? Yeah, we're going to build Phoenix. That's our mission. We're laser focused on that. We're fully financed to production. We're guiding EIA approval about March. We're still on track for that. We're guiding construction permit in October, but we're doing all these pre-construction activities. Good thing about what we're building, very simple projects, an ADR plant, which is pipes, tanks, pumps. We don't perceive any real issues with supply of those components. We've put in our orders for the pumps.

1:08:03 All the contractors have been mobilised. The plant fabrication contractor, our civil construction contractor has mobilised. So everything's going on. Big employment push in Kopi-a-Po for people for the project. And for the first time, and I mentioned this on an interview I did with you just recently, Matt, for the first time, we're going to do exploration drilling at Phoenix. So we have, our geologists have done some great work. They've looked at all the drilling, the previous mapping, and then combined that with geophysics that's been done. I've frozen up, Hopefully I haven't. But anyway, we're going to do drilling for the first time, exploration drilling.

1:08:55 And hopefully that's going to show people the size potential of this project, which is already at 5Moz. We think it's going to grow to about 10Moz over time, but the drill bit will prove that. Okay. And Paddy, I know you already had a go, but just give us a little bit of a... Well, one other thing, Alex, hopefully you can afford a new shirt, but it's brutal. For us, I'll take it in order. We're going to continue to drill at the P17 South and P17 Target. It was great results for us last year. So that'll be the first thing out of the shoot in 2022. Resource reserve, life of mine plan and expansion update, end of Q1. So that I think is going to be very exciting for us. We haven't done that for quite a while. We're still showing a certain production and a certain throughput. And I think that will change. And then obviously continue the focus on construction. It takes a lot of time and effort guys to be on top of that, particularly under current circumstances. We're a landlocked country, you know, so really you've got to be on top of transportation, logistics, deliveries, movement of people. So we expect to do get that in. We're very much targeting below budget now and on target for production in Q3 and then ramp it up towards the end of the year. So big year for us.

1:10:15 We've got a lot of stuff behind us now. You'll see the videos, you know, where we got the mill delivered last week. We've got 2, 3 tanks off now. We've got the structural mechanical piping guy on site. So it's all real happening, and 2022 will be incredibly busy for us. A big thank you to everybody from our team is looking from the ground. Safety has been huge for us, how well they've done things and kept the communities happy as well. So it's been great. So a big thank you to all those guys on the team, on the ground, doing all that hard work. Well said, because it's not just you guys. There's a big team behind you on the ground and back at the office. And the founder of Festivus and Manera Alamos. Doug Ramshaw, go on, give us your bullet points. Yeah, I mean, we're going through ramp up at- At Paratroopers, maybe?

1:11:03 Yeah. I mean, put that away, please. We're all about capital intensity, Paddy. You're lucky I'm wearing shorts. You know, everything is about keeping costs down. I just hope that's your knee. Yeah. We're lucky you're wearing anything today, Doug. Yeah, I know. I got a 19-year-old Santa hat on. Come on, sell to us. Come on. So, biggest thing for us, you know, Santana will push towards commercial production early in 2022. But we're going to be a multi-mine builder. And so we're going to look to get our permit applications in for our second mine early in 2022 as well. And with that on track, all being well, by second half of 2023, our second mine will come on stream. And that was always the focus for Monero is to build a sequence of these with very low capital intensity.

1:11:56 The banker said to me recently, your 3 builds probably coming in at 70 million US, you shouldn't be worried about a 30% increase in costs. Well, I'm always worried about costs, but it's less impactful on our business model. So we will have a 2 track news flow on Cerro de Oro, our second mine to be built and Santana and the successful ramp up to commercial production and really excited for 2022. And by the end of the year, hopefully we've been able to tackle a bit of a short term, just a tiny little short term overhang in our stock. Yeah, thank you very much. Guys, just want to say, for people who've been watching and sending questions in, which are specific about the company, we said at the beginning, perhaps we would stay away from that one, but the questions will be sent to the companies. They will respond to you directly, because some very specific questions in there. I hope you enjoyed the kind of broad market conversation here. It is best of us.

1:12:52 It's a little bit early, but we went early. Give some latitude there. We talked about some of the gripes, some of the things that we're seeing in the marketplace. But most of all, I want you to be looking at these companies. These are real company builders. These are real mind builders here. You're looking at fundamentals are important when investing. So do have a look at all 4 of these companies. Gentlemen, I salute you. Well, I'm going to salute you now with the real way, wine. Thank you so much. We'll see you