Conduit Holdings (LSE:CRE) — H1 2024 results

0:01 Good afternoon, and welcome to the CONDUIT HOLDINGS LIMITED investor presentation. Throughout this quarter presentation, investors will be in listen only mode. Questions are encouraged and can be submitted at any time by the Q and A tab situated in the right hand corner of your screen. Just simply type in your questions and press send. The company may not be in a position to answer every question it receives during the meeting itself. However, the company can review all the questions submitted today and publish responses where it is appropriate to do so. Before we begin, I'd like to submit the following poll. I'd now like to hand you over to Trevor Carvey. Good afternoon, sir.

0:30 Thanks very much, and welcome to everybody. My name is Trevor Carvey, CEO of CONDUITED Holdings, and I'm joined by Elaine Whelan, our CFO. So what we got here is the interim results deck, which we're going to walk you through. This is as we've shared with the market earlier today. And then I think we're gonna move from thereafter into q and a. So thanks very much, and let's move on. Next slide.

1:03 And, again, that's a disclaimer. Thanks. That's fine. Yes. So so for us, 2024 interim results, comprehensive income of 98,100,000 and gross premium written of plus 36.1% to $737,800,000 Those two numbers are good solid results for us as a business, so our six month results. The market has remained pretty much in our favor through the course of the first six months of this year. We've got disclosures here in slides around the individual divisions of property, casualty, and specialty. And there's some interesting moving parts, if you like, and some interesting detail within each of those. But overall, really pleased with that result. We've shown good growth, as I say, to 737,000,000 over the same period

2:12 the combined ratio, discounted combined ratio, 75.1. That compares with 72.5 for the first six months of twenty twenty three. We've got some commentary around that, and myself and Lei will go into some of the moving parts within there. But it's it shows that even though there wasn't particularly significant industry events, we say, in terms of US landfalling hurricane or large very large natural perils event, there's still a lot of activity out there in the world in terms of smaller natural perils events, but also some of what we would refer to as man made events, and in this case, events such as the Baltimore Bridge event, which which happened in the in the half year.

3:01 Comprehensive income, as I said, 98,100,000 and a return on equity of 9.9%. Pleasing numbers, and that's up over the previous comparable period in 2023 with 9.1% ROE and comprehensive income of 78.6. Elaine can give you a walk through of some of the moving parts within that when we come to the slide later on on financial highlights. So by the high level

3:35 in the half year and market conditions that we've we've got probably best if I address those within the context of the next slides that are coming up where we talk about property, casualty, and specialty in, yeah, each one in isolation. Next slide.

3:57 I'm gonna read it from the slides here. It's pretty small on my screen. Sorry. Excuse me. Yeah. So overall, gross premiums written, as I said, up 36%. And the bars on the right will show the where that growth has come from across property, casualty, and specialty. You see that we're still showing a good footprint across all three of those divisions. We have called out probably well over a year ago now that property and specialty were the areas where we saw the best margin and the best place to be deploying and skewing our capacity towards, and that's really what you're seeing there. So that growth has been largely generated through the property and specialty divisions.

4:45 Come on to those specifically in a moment. Point around risk selection is absolutely key for us. Risk selection in terms of the broad portfolio risk that we get shown is the way that we really have the value to the portfolio. We have a very broad footprint across all three classes, access globally through broker intermediaries, and Bermuda still remains a a very sound place to be transacting business and accessing business on the global stage for reinsurance. So for us, we still have a very selective risk approach. So we we aim still to create a very broad funnel of distribution.

5:31 There's still those risks down into our portfolio and our analytics. And from there, we create the portfolio that is is balanced and diversified across different regions and geography. Last point there really around the expenses and other operating expenses as we refer to them. And that trend line down from the high in '21 when we set up and, you know, incurring those build out costs, which are perfectly natural in the start up business of north of 28%. Now trending down to that level in the five well, five to four and a high four range, which really is just a function of us scaling the business and being able to disseminate that cost more efficiently across across the earned premium base.

6:24 We are in a position where, to a large extent, you know, the business has been scaling for a while anyway, as you can see over 22, three, and four. We're currently a head count of 61 here in Bermuda, full time employees, and it is the one location. So we we made many comments previously around the way that we manage the business, the way that it's driven and controlled from centrally and within the one location here, particularly around that risk selection piece, it does aid our ability to spot trends, act on those, and deploy capital and capacity into the classes that we we see where those greatest margins. So in one location and, you know, we still believe it's a it's a great way to go to market in accessing general reinsurance business.

7:20 Next slide. So on the in the property arena, good growth, 43% in the half year. The growth that we've seen has come still predominantly from what we would call our ground up quota share business. That quota share business is where we're sitting behind those original insurance carriers, sharing in those original risks that are being written, and reviewing those portfolios and tracking cycles alongside those existing insurance carriers. So it's where we're partnering up with them. Big area for growth that we've seen,

8:00 that we've allocated specific capacity to, is in The US market in what's called the nonemitted space. And bear with me for a moment here, but that nonemitted space is basically where insurance companies operating typically on a state by state basis are able to fully control their price and their policy wordings in a in in a in a in a free open market way, should we say. There is an another class of business in The States, which is called admitted, which is more regulated by the state, and that's where the state will, in many cases, limit and cap the degree to which insurance companies can increase rate, for instance, increase price.

8:46 Our focus in growing this property book where we've grown that credit share is in areas like the states where that nonadmitting market has been really strong, has shown really good rate over the course of the last four years, and there's been a good growth area for us. We do, of course, write excessive loss. So excessive loss inherently is the part of the industry that really takes care of more volatility. So much lower, you know, be like normal or expected loss ratios through through less active cycles. But when hurricanes or earthquakes or large natural perils events, it's excessive loss account, which is really picking up more exposure to those type of events.

9:35 We're in that space. We balance it within the overall portfolio, but what happens there at this point of the cycle is that it's generally a less desirable place to be skewed towards. So for us, rates have come off slightly year over year, particularly in parts of The US. And we've we still maintained a position, but it's it's less of a driver for our portfolio. Rate change, we're seeing 3% risk adjusted rate change net of inflation. So that's the, if you like, the net impact that we see by the time that we we overlay the impact of claims inflation and other factors on the pure rate that we get. That 3% looks like a relatively low figure, but it's coming on the back of very significant compounding increases over the course of the last four four years, really, since CONDUIT came into inception in '21.

10:30 So still in a really good place with really good margin, and it's a good place to still be deploying capital. Undiscounted combined ratio there, 61.9 in '23 up to 64.7. We got some commentary on that as regards to some of the the loss events. But in the main, as I said in the opening remarks, whilst there playing hasn't been one single large major property event, It has actually been a pretty active year globally for smaller style wind and and even flood events, floods in Germany being an example of that. So in that context, still a good performance. Still really pleased with it, but it just shows that, you know, property trends and loss ratios move not just based on large headline events that you see in the press. Next slide.

11:31 Casualty commented on this at the start. Yes. We've grown at 5%, and we're comfortable with that. You know, the portfolio has been very selective from day one. We had have an enormous funnel of business that that flows through in casualty. We're very selective in how we've supported the underlying carriers. And we've really the portfolio has grown with them. So we've added some new contracts to it in the course of the six months, but generally, that growth is really reflecting what the underlying clients are doing with their business. And that goes to the heart of casualty. Plainly, there's lower margins that we price in the casualty space, and we expect in the casualty space. That's just the nature of where that market is at the moment. It's still a good contributor to what we do, but the clients that we're supporting are also taking action. So, you know, if they're seeing the underlying policy conditions or or terms weakening, then they take action and they reduce their exposure to it. That's what we look for in our client base.

12:43 So casualty overall is, as a class, the comment I would say around the market conditions is really underpinned by the not so much of global, but certainly country by country, the underlying inflation that sits within the you know, be that in The UK or be that in The US or in parts of Europe. Inflation has obviously been a big factor for for everybody. That claims inflation flows through into a way that recoveries and policies settle ultimately. And as that trending claims moves higher, that's what's underpinning the premiums within the class. Interestingly, in the quarter, we actually saw a 2% risk adjusted rate change rate reduction in casualty, and that's on the the policies that we've written In the main, it's kind of been oscillating around that kind of plus one, plus two, flat, minus one, minus two.

13:38 And it's really showing that in the main, what we're seeing is that the underlying rate that we're getting is pretty much plus or minus keeping in line with or at least coping with the underlying claims inflation. So very happy with what we've produced as a portfolio. It's it's a it's a great balance to what we do elsewhere in the property and specialty space, And the client base that we've got there is doing a really good job in in underwriting those risks through for us. Next slide. Specialty. Yeah. Big growth. 59% in specialty coming from a lower base, 93,000,000 as opposed to particularly property. But as we flagged that before, number of the specialty areas have shown really good margin for us.

14:30 The areas that we have bound into the portfolio are essentially complementary to property and casualty. So one of the key features for us in writing the specialty lines of business is that we're not adding large amounts of natural catastrophe, natural catastrophe exposure, natural perils to the overall property. But it's it's, I think, it's true to say out there in the industry, it would be fairly simple to write and increase

15:01 the specialty book, but it very often will bring significant increases in natural perils exposure. That's not what we're doing here. Specialty book for us is particularly valuable around what we call the non catastrophe piece, the risk piece, and is currently pricing up pretty well in the main. The uptick in loss ratio in the half year from 80.7 to sorry, combined ratio to from 80.7 to 95.7 miles ago. Part of that is driven by the Baltimore Bridge. Obviously, an event which has been across the new screens, at least it was when it occurred a few months ago. We've provided for an ultimate estimate after reinstatements and net of reinsurance of 19,800,000, that is, isn't it? $19,800,000.

15:58 It's a a loss event, which is, in our view, going to be very significant in the context of the marine industry. Because whilst it was a bridge, obviously, that was demolished, almost certainly the vessel and the vessel owners and the vessel managers will have a degree of liability there.

16:19 That's the contract exposure that falls into the specialty class globally, and that marine and marine liability could potentially be a very large event by the time it works its way through the courts, etcetera. So we're aware of the limits that are out there in the market that can be called upon, and we very much weighted our our ultimate estimate of 19,800,000 with those limits in mind. So and that's, again, as I said, one of the drivers of the of the increase in the on discount to combined ratio over the half year. Okay. Next slide. Think we're moving next. Good. Yep. I'll pick up on some of these numbers here. Trevor's talked through a few of them already, but just to reiterate where I think it's important to do so.

17:13 Gross premiums written of $737,800,000, that's 36.1% up in the prior year. And as Trevor's talked through, that's that's in line with the strategy that we had, which was a growth strategy anyway, but also taking advantage of the market conditions that we had in front of us. We've still had a fairly strong lean towards quota share, which Trevor touched on as well. And where we front loaded the book last half year, I think we've done that a little bit more this year even, again, given the opportunities that we've seen in front of us. So for the full year, we would expect that growth percentage to moderate a little bit, but then still expect strong growth for the full year. And that filters through into reinsurance revenue, which under our IFRS 17 reporting is essentially our gross premiums earned, lesser cedings commissions. So it's a lower number, but it's it's due to the the offset of that ceding commission in there.

18:07 Our net reinsurance revenue then shows the offset of our CD reinsurance expenses, which were a little bit higher this year than last year, and that's in line with the inwards book and the growth that we had in that book, plus a little bit of price increase at oneone,

18:21 but overall increase in the net reinsurance revenue there of 39.3%. Trevor has mentioned a little bit about the loss environment, and it has been another half year with a fair bit of activity that there was last year too, but more in the kind of mid sized cats and man made losses this year that we would expect to pick something up on. So when we do look at our undiscounted loss ratio, which isn't on this page, but is in our press release, it's 73% for this half year versus 68.1% for last half year versus a discounted loss ratio of 62.4% for this half year versus 57.5% for last half year. We look at those kind of loss activity that we've seen year on year, when we when we back those out, our underlying is pretty much in line, so there's not there's nothing really in there that we would call out individually.

19:13 One thing that I do like to point out, three and a half years into our business is that we are still building up our reserve position and and hopefully doing that with a fair bit of prudence in there, so that has an impact in in terms of how we look at our our loss ratios there. Expense ratios, as Trevor mentioned, have generally been trending down and that's on the reinsurance operating expense ratio as well as the other operating expense ratio. So overall, our undiscounted combined ratio for the half year of 85.7% versus 83.1% for last half year and on a discounted basis at 75.1% this half year versus 72.5% for the last half year. Comprehensive income, Trevor mentioned that as well, 98,100,000 for the half year, that's up almost 25 percent in the prior year and a return on equity for the half year of 9.9%.

20:04 So echoing the comments there in terms of being very happy with those results to another active first half year. Next slide, please.

20:16 On investments, overall return for the half year, 1.5% this half year versus 2.1% last year. Our book yield is now sitting at 4.1% this half year versus 3.2% at at June 30 last year. So we are generally seeing better a higher yielding portfolio, so so a higher return from that. Last year saw a little bit of a benefit from spread compression as well, so slightly higher return through the half year last year. But not really much change in terms of how we think about our investment portfolio. It's still pretty short duration, very focused on maintaining a high quality, highly liquid portfolio. Duration, we are nudging that very gently up towards the duration of our reserves. So we're currently at two point five years on the asset side versus three point one on the liability side, and we've been deliberately short of the liability duration over the last few years, while we've been going through the interest rate hike cycle and just as I said, nudging that up a little bit now.

21:24 Asset allocation, in line with where we've been previously, just nudged up a little bit, which is really just tight in terms of some cash flow expectations. But other than that, no real changes from the prior quarter. Next slide, please. Okay. Yeah. Thanks, Elaine. Yeah. So just in conclusion, final slide. A number of these points we've covered already, but the headline and the point around multiline, multiline reinsurance platform, multiline strategy is a key one to bring out. Right from day one when we've we're building the the team and the strategy around building a balanced portfolio, we were at pains to to make sure that the expertise that we put into the business comes from a big part of the insurance market.

22:16 Often, you see reinsurance platforms created, particularly around some of the property areas where it's got almost like a top down approach where cap modeling and high level metrics are used to generate a view of the industry. Our view is completely divergent from that in that having the insurance practitioners and and a lot of insurance experience in a reinsurance company means that you can more confidently engage with clients, understand the cycle market movements. And it's hard work. It's hard yards doing that in a number of cases, but it's the way that you really build into the business a sense of where the market is within these multilines at any one point

23:03 in time. And that's really key for us. You know, we talk about positive market environment and rate increases have slowed. And in some some of the classes have indeed gone to negative. But we track those all individually. The portfolio is built with that in mind, and I think it's safe to say, and we've said this before, that when we put the portfolio together quarter to quarter, year to year, the the way in which it's built and the way to which it's optimized as we progress is really key. Since we started the business, we've written over $2,600,000,000 in written premium. And when you consider that we probably within each of our property, casualty, and specialty divisions have more than a dozen subclasses, you can see that there's there's a lot of moving parts where we're constantly looking at where they sit in relation to each other and how they complement each other when we fold that through into our sort of balanced position that we're looking to

24:08 create. And that's a big part of the model, a big part of what we do. Rate rate environment, generally, at the moment is still positive. As I say, bit of a transitionary phase in some of the classes. But overall, it's still a very good place to be deploying and and underwriting into. And for us, you know, having a clean capital base without the the hangover, should we say, of back here legacy. So it's still being reported, obviously, in the broader industry even in the the reporting season that we're in now. There's still some back year adverse claims experience being experienced in the industry in the casualty lines going back to pretty much pre con pre 2020.

24:54 And we're seeing that. We're not encumbered by that. And and for us, that's really important, and it helps us to be able to still to continue to deploy a clean balance sheet into the market that we're now in. So very pleased with life in terms of the way it's presenting itself to us, and I think we still have some good times ahead in terms of this year and beyond. So happy to move to q and a. Perfect. Trevor and Elaine, thank you very much for your presentation. Ladies and gentlemen, please do continue to submit your questions just by using the q and a tab, which is situated on the top right hand corner of your screen. We have received questions, so we'll dive straight in with the first one here, which reads reads as follows. Given the forecast of an unusually active hurricane season, how much of that is priced in,

25:38 and how concerned is management of the potential impact of the active hurricane season on loss ratios? Okay. Yeah. I'll take that. Yeah. In terms of pricing in a hurricane season or a hurricane experience, in the main, when the wind exposed business, let's call it that, is is priced year on year, it's it does have a small weighting in some cases towards the the season that's forecast, but but usually in this industry, not. So it's very unusual that we would take a client's submission to us, look at it, price it from from American standpoint, and then adjust it for the forecast, which apparently are out there this year.

26:30 In terms of the industry in correlation, one of the important points around the hurricane season is, I think, it is acknowledged that, you know, climate change, sea surface temperatures, etcetera, having an impact on the frequency and the severity of the business. But in terms of the the hurricane impact but there's generally quite a weak correlation the frequency of hurricanes and the actual insured loss. If you go back over time, go back certainly over two or three decades, that hurricane has to make landfall in a place where insured values are material. So, yes, while it may well be a forecast that they're they're saying the the industry may expect a more active year, there's not a strong correlation between the the actual finally insured loss.

27:26 In terms of where we are, we make provision for not just hurricane, but other large events and other large natural problems within our pricing pricing picks. That's provided for, and that's tested and stress tested. But it's certainly tested back against the portfolio and in terms of sort of general market experience and client experience. So so we shall see what the what the next few months bring. But overall, we have a very solid position. And I think as we've mentioned before, we also have a a protection program, should we call it that, that sits around large events within the business. And we have a degree of ability to to lay off or hedge large events if they do impact on the portfolio. I think also just in terms of how we risk select, we we are quite careful to making sure that there's balance within this book in managing volatility, the tail risk and our PML exposure is probably at the lower end of of peer companies.

28:27 That's great. Thank you very much. Turning to the next question. What is CONDUIT HOLDINGS' unique competitive advantage versus other listed P and C reinsurers? K. The the one that I've always cited here and the one that I think becomes more apparent with every year that goes by for us is the ability to use the insurance knowledge from the ground up to engage with the broader client base. So I said earlier that, you know, the expertise that we've got is heavily grounded in the insurance market. And to be able to assimilate data in from hundreds of clients from the insurance side, bring that into our portfolio, spot trends within that, and then discuss that back and play that back with clients is really valuable. It's a bottom up approach.

29:27 So when we're doing that excuse me. Turn the volume down. When we're doing that and engaging with clients on in that insurance space, I wouldn't say it's unique, but it's certainly a a a way and a strategy of dealing with risk that's being assimilated, which is different to a lot of other companies. What we've seen is within the portfolio that we've bound during the last or written in the last twelve months has certainly seen risks which are more varied and more broad in nature. So maybe they have some specialty and some property in there. Those are risk switch. There's less markets around that can assimilate those risks and underwrite them. We've got a collection of individuals in one location that can bring their resources to bear on that risk, engage with actuarial that's sitting in this one location, and feedback and work with clients to find a solution that works for both of us.

30:35 That is not normal in the industry. In the industry, it's much more likely that the insurers have a silo approach. There's a property unit and there's a cashier unit, and sometimes they'll be sitting in completely different parts of the world. And that is a big advantage in being able to negotiate with clients and strike a balance on contracts that work for both parties. So long winded answer, and so apologies for that. But that is, to my mind, the strongest differentiator that we have. That's great. Thanks very much. How does the underwriting risk appetite compare with peers? Tough to comment on the peers. The you know, from a a capital standpoint, there are, obviously, larger entities out there, which presumably would have larger larger larger absolute appetites.

31:30 But in terms of where we and how we gauge our risk appetite in terms of the portfolio positions we take, for instance, as a percentage of tangible net asset value. We have a position there where we set our probable maximum loss and tolerances, I think, at very sensible levels. And by that, I mean that, you know, we have exposure to large events like the bridge, like hurricanes and and earthquakes and the like. But we're always putting that exposure on the books subject to an overall tolerance that keeps it, what we believe, in balance, and that is very important. So I think in that in that respect, we have a probably a broader risk appetite across classes and other reinsurers because we want that diversification.

32:25 But I would be proud to accept the fact that we we have perhaps less of an appetite to any one large event that could imbalance the portfolio. Perfect, Trevor. Thank you very much. Just turning to the next question. I think you have touched on it, but if you could maybe provide some more color. It it would seem that we might be in a for a bad hurricane season. Does this concern you? Well, my seaweed on the wall hasn't turned whatever color it has at the moment. So and that's the nature of these forecasts, as I've said. So the it it it doesn't concern me in terms of where we sit as a business. Yeah. Perhaps if we were a standalone unique single class property catastrophe reinsurer writing business, it would do, but that's not what we are. So I think, you know, we've got a robust portfolio where each deal is priced individually to bring a margin to the portfolio and and create that that a greater degree of stability. So no. In the main, no. It doesn't, certainly.

33:31 Could you expand a bit on what classes of business included within casualty and specialty? How long is a a a piece of string for them? Very broadly, within casualty and specialty, we would have, as I say, probably about a dozen main classes as examples in casualty. You can have professional liability to liability to professions, architects, engineers, the like, doctors. Management liability, which is essentially the same. D and O, so directors and officers, so liability of directors and officers. General liability, which would be the liability of corporations to misselling your products or indeed an event that could happen to them within their sort of corporate environment.

34:28 Railroads, for instance, railroads buy large amounts of cover to cover themselves against causing damage to third party or to bodily injury to to to the general public. So casualty classes are in that, and those are the main ones. Probably for us, reasons I've cited those first, those are the ones which are more prevalent in our portfolio. We don't have a major exposure to to medical liability or hospital liability, and that's a big part of the business. And also auto or motor, yeah, as we refer to in The UK, that's not something we write. And that often, if you're having broader definition cited of casualty, would it probably include quite often motor liability?

35:18 We don't write that class for various reasons I won't go into now, but we don't trade it in that class. Specialty for us falls into the marine, the energy, the aviation, renewable business, renewable structures, if you like, wind turbines and the like. And then both the physical damage to those and the liability. So specialty kinda has a double up in number of classes. A good example would be the the bridge in the Baltimore loss. You know, specialty covers the vessel, which is damaged, so that's the damage to the vessel. It covers the cargo on the vessel, but then the underwriters and the separate policy cover the liability of the vessel. So especially covers both first and third party.

36:06 And it's a is is fairly broad broad class in there. As a point, just to highlight, and we've said before, we don't write trade credit, and we don't write mortgage business, which sits within the the specialty arena. Sometimes it is is a sizable cohort of specialty account that we don't, primarily because it's correlated with the asset side of of our balance sheet. So that's a bit of a highlight anyway in terms of some of the classes. We do have our year end financial statements and our risk disclosures and the description of the classes of business that we underwrite. If you want to go to that as reference after this presentation, you'll find that there. The next question is really around the dividend and asks, your interim dividend is unchanged. Is this an indication that the same might happen with the full year dividend?

37:02 I think we've been fairly consistent in our dividend so far. We don't like to commit too far into the future on that, given that we are risk taking business. But I think our interim and final is is reasonably well understood at this stage. Thanks very much, Elaine. The last question we've got here, I have read that the ILS market is raising considerable sums for catastrophe bonds. Is this likely to either increase CONDUIT's underwriting capacity or tentatively put pressure on rates or attachment levels? Yes. That's a good question. Bit of both. We obviously do we are in the cap on space currently and benefit from the protection that that issuance provides for us.

37:53 We'll keep that under review in terms of the scale to which we utilize the cap bond market. More capacity coming in has undoubtedly and almost certainly will suppress some of the spreads in that space. That does have a knock on effect also, as you allude to, on the pricing of our inwards business and the business that we write. It tends to fall, though, in a kind of relatively limited area. The cap on space likes the more remote risk, the more binary triggers, so tends to put capacity into the areas that respond to not many of the smaller risk, but the very large one offs.

38:38 That's not an area we really deploy a lot of cap capital into when we're writing a competing product to the cap on market. We tend to operate in the area where kind of our insurance knowledge adds more value, and that's generally at the lower level that responds to series of smaller claims, which the cap bond market is not particularly set up to to accommodate effectively. So I don't think it has a major impact on what we are seeing on our our own property experience and where certainly the majority of our premium exposure comes from. But it may offer us potentially enough more opportunity on the purchasing side. That's great, Trevor and Elaine. Thank you very much for answering those questions you can from investors. Of course, the company can review all the questions submitted today and we'll publish those responses on the Investor Meet company platform.

39:32 But just before redirecting investors to provide you with their feedback, which I is particularly important to you both, Trevor, could I just ask you for a few closing comments? Yes. Thanks very much. Yeah. Thanks for all coming online and and listening to the presentation. We think it's a fundamentally first a good set of numbers, and it's what the the business was articulated to to be able to do to to generate return of this level. And in the market that we're in, it's a as I said before, it's a good place to be in to be deploying. So thanks very much for being aligned, and look forward to speaking to you again at the next the next gathering, should we call it. Perfect. Trevor, Elaine, thank you once again for updating investors today. Could I please ask investors not to close the session as you now be automatically redirected to provide your feedback in order that the management team can better understand your views and expectations?

40:29 This will then take a few moments to complete, but I'm sure we'll be greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the management team of CONDUIT HOLDINGS LIMITED, we'd like to thank you for attending today's presentation, and good afternoon to you all.