Boliden (Stockholm:BOL) Q3 2026 Earnings Call

0:00 Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to welcome you to Boliden's Q3 2026 results presentation. My name is Olof Grenmark, and I'm head of investor relations. Today, we will have a presentation led by our president and CEO, Mikael Staffas, and our CFO, Håkan Gabrielsson. We will also have a Q&A session, which I will moderate, and we will start here in Stockholm. Mikael, welcome.

0:27 Thank you, Olof, and welcome to all of you here in Stockholm and everybody who's listening to this online. It is, of course, an especially pleasant day to come and visit you all. We have presented our quarter results, and it's the best quarter result ever, which always feels good to say. Of course, helped by the fact that we have very good prices and terms, but also from a very good production quarter in general. So let's jump into the material. MORE EASILY SAID THAN DONE. HERE IT GOES. SO THE HIGHLIGHTS, AS I ALREADY POINTED OUT, WE HAVE STRONG EARNINGS OF ABOUT 4.9 BILLION SWEDISH KRONE. WE HAVE A SOLID PERFORMANCE IN GENERAL ACROSS THE MINES. I'M PICKING HERE SPECIFICALLY SOMENKOR, WHICH IS DOING VERY WELL, AND ALSO KEVITSA, WHICH IS DOING WELL, AND THE RAMP-UP PLAN And Garpenberg is also going very much according to what we have said we're going to do, even though we are, of course, still much below where we were last year. We also have in our smelters, especially at Harjavalta, a very strong quarter. I would say almost exceptional availability of the equipment in Harjavalta.

1:39 We also have a new record in Harjavalta in terms of nickel feed. THE ODA SMELTER IS MOVING ON IN A MUCH BETTER PACE THAN IT HAS IN PREVIOUS QUARTERS. WE HAVE COME UP TO AN AVAILABILITY IN THE QUARTER OF ABOUT 50%, WAY UP FROM THE 17% IN Q2. AND IN THE LAST MONTH OF THE OF THE QUARTER IN SEPTEMBER, WE HAD 70% AVAILABILITY, SO THE CURVE IS CLEARLY GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION AS OF RIGHT NOW. AND THEN DURING THE QUARTER, AS YOU ALL KNOW, WE ALSO ANNOUNCED THAT WE ARE GOING TO GO AHEAD AND ACQUIRE FIRST OF ALL THE VOTERLAND TIM STAKE IN NEXA AND THEN AFTER THAT ALSO CONTINUE WITH A BROADER OFFER FOR THE MINORITY SHARES.

2:28 Looking at the financial performance, you can see here very clearly a big uptake around these ones. We have the operating profit of 4.9 billion Swedish krona. There is a little bit of planned maintenance in this quarter as well, although much less than in Q2. We have a positive cash flow. Håkan will come back in a little while and talk a little bit more about the details. We have the net debt to equity. The gearing is now down to 21% again. And CapEx, that 3.4 billion Swedish krona, right exactly how we guided and what we also had planned for. THE KEY PROJECTS, I'LL START WITH THE TANK HOUSE BECAUSE AS WE HAVE ALWAYS SAID WE INTENDED TO START IT UP IN Q4 OF THIS YEAR AND EARLY TODAY WE ACTUALLY HAD POWER ON IN THE FIRST OF THREE SECTIONS IN THE TANK HOUSE AS I'M SPEAKING RIGHT NOW ALREADY PRODUCING ON THAT FIRST SECTION.

3:22 THE OTHER TWO SECTIONS ARE INTENDED TO HAVE THE POWER ON LATER DURING THE QUARTER AND AS WE GO INTO Q1 WE SHOULD HAVE A FULL PACE OF PRODUCTION. AND THE SAND RECYCLING IS WORKING The Gartenberg project, those who read Swedish news will know that we had the official start of the project with the ceremony for the first excavation for the new shaft the other day. That one is on track as well, although it's very early days, but that looks good. And then the other expansion, the ramp-up is ongoing. The availability of the roaster is increasing, as I said before. We saw 50% on average for the full quarter, 70% in June.

4:11 September, and this is clearly moving in the right direction. The mechanical issues that we had in the beginning linked not so much to the actual critical equipment, but linked to things like transport and other things have now been cleared out to a large extent. On the ESG side, we did not have the best of quarters in terms of lost time injuries. There's also been a fatality during the quarter, or actually right after the quarter in early October, a very unfortunate event. It's still a little bit unclear to us what really happened, also a little bit unclear whether it is a workplace-related fatality or whether it is a sickness fatality. It doesn't really matter. We've had a fatality.

4:57 We're working around it, trying to figure out what really happened and how we can get better from that. The other long-term injuries also in the quarter was not brilliant. We had a higher level than what we had last year, and we continue to work with these issues relentlessly. The sick leave, however, is going towards the right direction. We now had 4.0% in the quarter. That's around the level of what we were before the pandemic. We have been on much higher levels, and you can say this is the first time we're back to pre-pandemic levels. And then the greenhouse gas emissions is going according to our plan. market development. I think that you all know that we have good prices and terms.

5:43 And you can see here that when the Bulliden index, which is the red line here, has plateaued, but on a very high level compared to before. And just from 2021, we're at index 175, so 75% up for the mix of metals that we have. And also the currencies are helping, although a bit on less scale, but the currencies have also been helpful in this I also must point out the sulfuric acid prices, which are also helping quite a lot in this situation. The prices for copper and zinc, I'm not going to do any detailed market analysis, but you can both see here that compared to the cost levels in the industry, we have high price levels. Most everybody in the industry makes money.

6:31 You can see that in the copper side, actually costs are going up, which could be an indication that the margins might get a little bit smaller going forward. This cost increase on the copper side has to do with diesel prices going up. It also has to do with the sulfuric acid prices going up, which for many copper mines is a cost. On the zinc side, also a good margin on this one and more of a flattish cost level development across the industry. If we then go to Booli, then look at our production. As I said earlier, we've had a good production. I think it has a mid-volume of 10.3 million tons, which is clearly better than last year. Also strong mine production when you add on the waste stock production, the stripping going on is very strong.

7:19 The copper grade is in line with previous quarter, higher than last year, but it is lower than we had indicated in the guidance, and we will reduce guidance for the copper grade for the whole year in ITIC based on this, but we will increase the guidance for throughput for the year. Bulletin area, very stable operation, looks very good. The Garpemberg YES, IT IS NOT A GOOD THING THAT WE DON'T HAVE THE LAPPA AVAILABLE, BUT GIVEN THAT SITUATION, VERY GOOD PRODUCTION IN THE QUARTER PRODUCING ACCORDING TO THE PLAN THAT WE HAD INTERNALLY AND THAT WE HAVE GIVEN TO THE MARKET, SLIGHTLY BETTER GRADE THAN WE HAD GUIDED FOR. KVSA record volume, very good. I mean, it's a mixed gray, but it's still a relatively good level.

8:08 Somincor, very strong, particularly copper. We're very positively surprised by Somincor coming into the family. Tara, a little bit lower than what we would like to, but still within reason. And Zinc Ruben has stable operations. So mixing those together, very good mine production. On the smelter side, let me take Hariavalta first, which is outstanding in terms of equipment availability. It has had a very strong quarter in general, and it's a quarterly record in terms of feed on the nickel line. Coca-Cola, also very strong production. which is clear that it will also get better production around that and also lower silver production due to lack of availability of one of the silver furnaces that is now fixed and SOQ44 were full speed also on the silver line.

9:10 And then ODA, as I said, caused somewhat of a difficulty on the old ODA roaster and the associated acid plant, which means that we have more plant maintenance going into the old roaster and the old acid plant. in Q4 and we're also therefore guiding for total effect from from maintenance stops for small

9:44 Thank you and good afternoon. So, as Michael pointed out, a strong quarter. We are reporting an operating profit of 4.9 billion, which is clearly up to the comparisons, and it is in fact the best quarter so far for this for this for this profit level capex pay out for for acquisition activities that is the contingent consideration for the acquisition of some these two newer assets have had a really good development both in terms of

10:38 going to the sellers.

10:42 Free cash flow, 1.1 billion. I'll come back to that. Looking at the business area, as you can see, both in the charts and in the table, there's good development in both business areas, starting with mines up to close from Garpenberg producing in line with the guidance. Also good development in smelters. And there you have to remember that Q2 was, as usual, impacted by quite extensive plant maintenance. And of course, smelters also has some help from prices.

11:38 Q3 of this year compared to Q3 of last year, we have a significant, a very big impact from prices, 3.2 billion. This is, of course, mostly metal prices where we have a good development of copper, zinc and gold to take them in order of importance.

12:02 also a small but significant increase of byproducts.

12:08 We have in here about 200 million from sulfuric acid. Volumes are down compared to last year, and this is over-explained by Garrett and I. offset by better production at other sites. Some that are worth mentioning are IT with a good production, Somincor performing well and Harjavalta which Mikael talked about. is an oil-driven inflation that hits oils, it hits chemicals, and it hits transports.

12:55 But we also have some additional cost in order during the ramp-up. And also, due to the fact that we have a strong third quarter, we've had to increase the provisions for our profit-sharing programs that goes to all staff. for an exchange and others, but the biggest individual item there is the sales of excess electricity that we do in Odda. Of course, when we'll get up to full capacity there, this part will disappear because we'll consume Comparing instead sequentially Q3 to Q2, it's a similar story, a good development of prices and terms.

13:49 Again, it's copper, zinc and gold primarily, but also about 100 million each from getting up from where we stood in Q2 to the current rate in Q3 is about a third of that amount. meaning than 300 millions. And then in addition, we've got better grades in ITIC and good production in and less plant maintenance in smelting.

14:23 So good volume costs.

14:27 less planned maintenance this quarter and then we also have some seasonal effects where we have a little bit of a lower cost during the vacation period that we had in Q3 that's largely ODA. ODA is not depreciating in full pace yet. We expect another 150 million roughly in pace in Q4, and then ODA will be depreciating at the full pace after expansion. But we've had some impact already in this quarter. Moving over to cash flow.

15:14 I think we commented the operating profits and the investment side. Working capital is minus one billion. That's two things that are worth highlighting. With the price development that we've had, we get quite significant if we have a higher copper price and high zinc prices and so on. So that's a significant part. But we haven't quite been able to reduce all of the working capital that we tied in Q2 either. Looking forward on the working capital side, I'd just like to remind you that in Q4, we will tie working capital in the tankhouse in Smelter, in Enranger.

16:08 So filling the tankhouse with copper and gold and so on, that means that we're going to build some working capital. So for those of you modeling, please include that. Apart from that, I think we've covered the remaining parts in cash flow. equity ratio, which I think is a good level to be when we look back at the London acquisition and we look forward to the next acquisition. We have a net payment capacity of 19 billion and all in all a strong balance sheet.

16:57 So Mika, do you want to continue?

17:02 Thank you. Thank you.

17:09 It's very high time to report your participation if you want to join us. Outlook going forward, I think we touched upon this very much. There is a lowering for this year of the grades of the classification on the cap rates on the mining side, with the larger part going to mine sustaining and a smaller part to other mines, but otherwise the guidance is very stable. Well, I should also mention, as I said before, Smelters' plan maintenance is also up from 450 to 500.

18:00 So with that, we'll stop our Q&A session, and we will start here in Stockholm. And we have Johannes Kronselius from SB1 Markets, please.

18:17 Yes, hi, everyone. It's Johannes here, SB1. Two questions, please. The first one on ITIC, you have lowered the grade guidance for us to 0.16. How should we think about 2027? I know you're going to talk more in depth.

18:39 The mine plan for next year is not finished yet, so until it is, I'm not going to comment too much.

18:46 But if we look at the previous guidance, that implied an uplift in second half year, which is not coming through. Should we think that that is basically pushed one or two quarters? Could you help us with that?

19:02 but that is I can give you a little bit of light having a couple of benches which have a higher waist drop dilution than we are used to in ITIC and that's also linked to why we're having a higher throughput is that we are not trying to separate this waste drop we're loading it all through the mill helping on the volume but being negative on the grade as we come to the deeper benches and we've been trying to check for this as this thing has happened so it's unexpected waste of dilution and a combination also that we're by mining a little bit slower than initial thoughts it takes a bit longer to get to the better grades delta year over year

20:06 I know you have plenty of annual contracts in your portfolio. Do you expect sort of more incremental profit from assets going forward given where prices are right now?

20:22 To that I can say yes.

20:27 So I think that we'll see a positive number also next quarter. But I'm not going to give an exact number on that yet.

20:36 Johan Sjöberg, Nordea Security Service.

20:41 Thank you, Olof.

20:43 Could you talk a little bit about the EU crisis and also sort of how we should look at that into Q4, given the positive trends in Odda and then also when it comes to Rönnskär's tank house? when we should start to see the positive impact on it.

21:10 It's good to hear somebody say no sick. It's been a long time since I heard that word last time, but it's a nice time. And therefore, it's all ahead of us, the positive impact that we're going to see. On ODA, it's a little bit more complex. And so as you saw, we've gotten much better. As I said, we've gotten much better throughput. There's more still to come. But there also in ODA, we have been holding And therefore, there you will get the effect once we will start daring to take silver-rich concentrates in there.

21:59 Now, Håkan, numbers.

22:01 Yeah, well, I'm not going to give you enough updated numbers for both cases because there are so many moving parts with sulfuric acid in them. in the right direction since then. Only additional comment is that for ODA, I think it's important also for Ranskär, there are a few weeks before you sort of put it in until you get it out. So for example, in Q3, we had almost no extra effect from ODA, even if it's moving in the right direction. So I think...

22:42 And then a follow-up question on Johannes on soft-euro asset and the contracts. Given how big share of your volumes have been exposed to this price increase, how much is sort of renegotiated next year? So the delta between Q1 and Q4.

23:06 it's a fairly small part that is directly linked to spot in particular if you read in the newspapers about global spot prices that's a very tiny part of our sales most is connected to European indexes of various kinds and then

23:30 production we have is connected to European index on some frequency.

23:39 Yearly or shorter.

23:41 Okay, but how big share have you seen already being impacted by high prices? And how much is yet to come?

23:57 will have, you know, fairly recent impact on all of the sales. But it's, it's, it's, it's, there are a few contracts reset every quarter. So it's, it's, it's.

24:16 Thank you. In Q2, you expected all that. to reach full production during Q3, and you said roaster availability averaged 50% this quarter, and I think you said it was 70% by September. Is that a fair sort of run rate to assume for Q4, and what still needs to be resolved before you can sort of sustain full production?

24:48 slower the question is how do you avoid having to stop as many times and I think you've had the discussions we've had mechanical issues we've had issue with the safety system that has that has blocked out at different stations when it should not have and so on and we're getting better and better at this and I think that So I think we're quite close to getting there, to get the ramp up. And then once we have the ramp up, just to get everything clear, once we have the ramp up, when we have the full feed, that's the only time we can start using all the later stages, the leaching and everything else going on full pace.

25:40 concentrates. It will take some time to find you in this thing, but I think the mechanical problems that we've had, which has been a problem, especially in Q2, mechanical problems that should not happen, they are behind us when mechanical issues are solved. Okay, that's helpful. Thank you. And just on ITIC volumes...

26:05 is it fair to sort of interpret you now as this being a lasting improvement and should we expect it to carry into next year yeah we had a very good Q2 Q3 is a little bit slower than Q2 because of the reasons you just mentioned but we think we reached a better base level if you want to say so in high tech

26:33 Okay, operator, then we start with the international guests, please. If you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone key. The next question comes from Alon Gabriel from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

27:01 Good afternoon, and thank you for taking my questions. I have a couple of questions. First is on ODA. I think, Mikael, you mentioned that 70% antithelialization period is expected now that you're over the mechanical issues to get to 100%. That's my first question.

27:25 And here, you should be careful with 100%. You never have 100% availability. There's always some downtime in a row.

27:35 I've said that.

27:39 Now, our self-confidence is not so strong regarding all that because I said that before, but generally speaking, we should get there pretty soon to get the throughput in place and work with the other parts.

27:55 Thank you. And the second question is on the MEXA, the MEXA-D. Do you have any updates on the MTO process for the minorities there? Does this figure stand? And what are the next regulatory or legal steps that are needed for you to move forward with the process?

28:17 I'm going to have to come back to, I'm going to answer the way I hate to answer, but I'm going to answer that it didn't work. The next question comes from Adrian Galani from ABG Sundal Collier. Please go ahead.

28:50 Well, right, you talked about previously, is that just sort of a normal quarterly fluctuation, or can there be some upside to the ramp-up time that you communicated before in Gerpenberg?

29:10 I mean, the guidance we're given is the 1.5 million tons for the whole year, right? So that's what we need to deal with. And then you can say a couple of times given. Somebody made a little bit of a smart comment that, you know, okay, so you're going to go from 100,000 tons to 200,000 tons. Is that happening on New Year's Eve? No, it's not really happening on New Year's Eve. It's what's happening gradually. So, yes, theoretically, we could go a little bit faster in Q4. We're not going to be waiting for whole years.

29:48 Could you talk a bit about your view on sort of ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

30:14 I'm not going to speculate what the number will be. The number will be what the number will be. I'll just make and the good value of the sulfuric acid smelter terms as a package are not that bad. Thank you. The next question comes from Liam Fitzpatrick from DB.

31:05 Please... ...from me. Firstly, on Odda, you mentioned Hawken X's power sales in Q3. Could you quantify for that number for us? Second question is on working capital.

31:24 Was any of the $2 billion built reduction in working capital in Q4.

31:34 I mean, should that still come through? And then the final question is a bit of a follow-up on treatment charges. It's tough to model the TCs until next year, given we're now in negative territory. So are you able to give us some sort of number for copper TCs, like if we weren't this year?

32:01 I think these are most yours, all of them, so go ahead.

32:04 Starting with the excess electricity, excess power, I think it's about in the quarter just over 150 million.

32:11 Working capital, nothing of the run you're right seasonally we typically have a good fourth quarter when we come to working capital I'm not I don't think it's going to be I think it's going to be the underlying development is probably going to be pretty okay except the capital build in Ranskär this year then also I could just mention that in a copper smelter the value of the inventory is very big so it doesn't take very much of a hiccup in the roundup to build extra working capital in there so I'm a bit conservative in my estimates for Q4 working capital but you're right the

33:24 What's the impact of negative 100 TC? I don't know. We published the TC sensitivity.

33:31 We have the sensitivity in the... But it's a bit... Around zero... I think if you just work at the feed level, I think you can get the general idea. But TCC is a very small part of the money we make as managers.

34:01 In our case, it's positive to some form of sensitivity on those TCCs.

34:12 Okay, thank you. The next question comes from Jason from Fairclough. Please go ahead.

34:25 Hi, gentlemen. Thanks for the presentation. Just two questions for me. One, any thoughts you could frame for us on how the smelters are under-earning relative to their capitalization and the recent investments that you've made? That's the first one. Second one... Miko, you seem quite excited about Semincor. I'm just wondering how you're thinking about the optionality in this asset. Is there any option for a low capital cost de-bottlenecking there?

35:03 If we start with the second one, the answer is yes. There are, and we've talked about that many times, there are geographic or geological potential in there. If you read the European Union list of strategic projects, with relatively little capex. So I would say yes, the answer is yes. The first question, just to understand, you were talking about the underperformance of smelters, and it depends, of course, where you put your... your baseline is all of the guided uptake in EBTA in Rensselaer because nothing of that has happened SOQ3 and it is most of the indicated EBTA uptake on ODA even though some has happened by

36:05 to get the product out.

36:08 Most of that has not come out yet. And we've also had still somewhat higher costs for that options we need to do. So I would argue also that most of the upside as communicated in the capital market is ahead of us.

36:26 So sorry, Michael, could you just remind us then what the

36:33 In the capital market today, I'm looking at Hawkins to remind me if I say the wrong thing, but I think that we said it was 150 million euros in order at the outtake, which was at the time of the capital market day, 250 million euros. that we said I think had gone to a billion and a half, right? Correct. With the prices and terms as of March this year. And since March, the prices and terms have improved. So these numbers should be slightly higher today, but we don't have, at least I don't have an exact number.

37:19 Okay.

37:20 So overall,

37:24 If you add what I said, it was four.

37:29 Okay. Sounds good. Thank you very much, sir. The next question comes from Amos Fletcher from Barclays. Please go ahead.

37:44 Yeah, afternoon, gentlemen. A couple of questions. First one was just on the subject of Nexa.

37:53 It had a credit rating downgrade to the company.

38:02 You can put this in two ways. There will be the opportunity for the counterpart to ask for a prepayment on the bonds. This particular one, there is a question whether anybody wants to prepay or whether they would like to stick with them anyway. And I would say that this is a little bit of a complicated matter. It has to do with many things, but we feel relatively good about the situation.

38:40 Okay, okay. And then the second question is also basically we've built all we have to build in ODA and we have H1 next year or is it likely to take a bit longer?

39:35 As I said, my kind of self-confidence in promising things and all that is a little bit low, but I would say it should clearly happen in the first half of next year.

39:52 on the depreciation it's about let's see 150 150 millisecond we're talking about per quarter per quarter comes from Daniel Major from UBS please go ahead Hi, thanks for the questions. Yeah, first one on Garfunkel Bay, last couple of quarters, you've given us quarterly EBITDA, EBIT kind of run rate just to help us model through the year.

40:45 Clearly volumes improved quarter came from Garfunkel Bay.

40:52 I'm starting to think what I should say. I think if we compare Q2 to Q3 and talk about the volume aspect, there was about 300 million sec in volume uplift between the quarter.

41:18 Q2 to Q3. around 300. Okay, that's clear.

41:27 The second, yeah, thanks.

41:30 The second one, a little surprise, both mining and smelting had a positive cost benefit in the course of giving some of the fuel pressures. Can you just remind us of diesel pricing remain the same before next year? What would the cost delta be?

41:58 Well, there is a little bit of a time lag, but I can give you the overall numbers that we spent in the quarter, and then you can apply various percentages. On oil and diesel, we spent about €400

42:15 700 million in the quarter.

42:18 And on other forms of energy, it's about 100. So that's what we have. And then in addition to that, the diesel also impacts transports, chemicals, although with some lags.

42:35 I think if we spent 400 on diesel, the percentages that you want to apply on that. Okay, just to follow up on that, you know, you said there's some time lag. I mean, if it just were a spot remain the same for next year, would that be material or would you have largely realised the kind of uplift in the spot this quarter? Okay. That's clear, thanks. And then just maybe a final one. What was the provisional pricing impact on the quarter?

43:23 Provisional pricing was about 200 million positive. And when I say provisional pricing, then as usual, I refer to the preliminary price volumes at the end of Q2.

43:41 Great. Thanks a lot. The next question comes from Matt Green from Goldman Sachs.

43:51 Please go ahead. Hi.

43:56 Mikel, just a quick question on GARP.

44:01 Where do you need to get those rates to support 2.3 million times next year? I guess just trying to sort of see if there's any technical personnel or equipment constraints and you being able to lift those development meters, appreciating that you do need to open up new mining areas given 70-75% of your working areas were lost with Lappaget. Thank you.

44:36 That's roughly what we need. So we are not with the big margin, but we are tunneling at roughly the pace that we need to tunnel in order to be able to meet what we have guided for and also to be able to The next question comes from Christian Agarwal from Citigroup. Please go ahead.

45:20 Hi. Thank you for asking my question. October 27 for one of the FDI in the Swedish market. Can you help us with any of the other major regulatory approvals that are still pending for the transactions? And also the vote which you're going to have on November 23, that has to be the simple majority or the super majority?

45:55 And then if you look at them, they're all together roughly 15 regulatory approvals that we need. That's a combination of the ones we already got, the foreign direct investment in Sweden. There's a combination of the permits that we need in Brazil for owning some natural resources. are well in progress and well processing, but it's only one so far that we've really gotten. But we feel that the process is okay for a closing in Q1, but you never know. We don't control the processes.

46:52 if you wish to ask a question please dial pound key 5 on your telephone keypad the next question comes from Christian copper from Arctic securities please go ahead

47:08 All right, thanks very much. A few follow-ups from my side. Firstly, you talked about the guidance in IT, and I appreciate if I understood you correctly, it seems that there is some upside to the volume guidance in Gartenberg for Geo4. If I look at pretty much all other mine assets, including grades. So, I mean, are you just being cautious or should we expect, you know, pretty much having down in Kippur?

47:59 I think that we've always warned everybody to try to, when you're standing at Q3, you're going to fold your number and you're trying to kind of work out what Q4 is by taking the full year minus the three quarters that have been presented. that means that we're more or less going to continue the way that we have guided before, and don't take that too long. So it looks pretty good, but don't overdo it, Christian.

48:32 All right. And then just a small thing, perhaps, that you represent, and some stories you already talked about with your friend, Christian. The premiums can help me

49:13 Well, as you said, the TC and the TCC, that's... I'll have to get back on that. I mean, we're following the benchmark, but then you have quarterly variations depending on the amount of complex material, the amount of, for instance, mercury and similar that we get extra payments for. So it is a variation. I'll come back to you separately on that, I think.

49:50 That's a good point. If you're comparing premiums Q on Q, we always have lower premiums in Q3 because of the vacation period and thus selling more overseas with lower premiums when industry in Europe take vacation.

50:22 Hi Michael, and thank you for the presentation and for the questions. I had a few questions. On Tara, I see unchanged foliar guidance. This imparts 500 kilotons nil in 4Q, which is roughly 60% above 3Q and subsequent previous quarters. What support

50:50 Once again, I will refer to what you said. You have to be careful exactly how you look at the guidance and exactly what kind of conclusions you draw for Q4 individually. I also pointed out by Christian just a while ago, I think that there are some upsides to certain numbers that could be downside to certain numbers. It's continuing more or less where it is. Maybe it's likely better in Q4 because things are sorting itself out, but it's in line with what has happened before.

51:29 Thank you. I appreciate it. Also, following the proposed next section, should we expect the balance sheet to take care of the fees over additional investment? Thank you for your

51:47 We will answer, you know, capital commitments to projects like Laver or Nautan as they mature and take a look into what the balance sheet will look like in every time. Now, having said that, you know that those two big ticket items are a couple of years out, which means it gives us...

52:17 Thank you, that is a perfect segue for my last session. On Gothenburg, you reiterated the 2.3 million times production target of 2027, but I still mention of an ongoing permitting process, additional research for it, following the 2020 event. How do you see that the new software is operational for the first half of 2027?

52:44 You're referring to an I'm just for everybody's clear discussions in Sweden that we have asked for a permit to store more waste rock Surface for our for our plan going ahead in in in Garpenberg County board who can give an example the permit from the court. And that's what you're referring to. I think just to be very clear, we do not have any issue to handle the waste. There are many other ways of doing it, including the kind of very simple one to just put it through the mills and put the tailings out on the tailings. and I think everybody is aware of this. So I don't think that in the end of the day, this is going to be an issue whatsoever.

53:39 And there are lots of plans that might not be the perfect plans if for some reason this permit gets delayed. The next question comes from Boris Bordet from Kepler Shoebrew. Please go ahead.

54:00 Hello. Hello, gentlemen. Thank you for taking my question. It's a follow-up on Garfenberg, following your comments on the 300 million stake as far as I understand and that compares to something that was close to zero in Q2 and I would be interested in getting if that's actually EBIT contribution how much is the related depreciation thank you it's an EBIT number but but

54:43 So the EV change is pretty much the same number as you get as a revenue change. The variable cost is very limited in this situation.

54:59 Okay, so last year the depreciation was 650, so we would divide that number by four and get 80.

55:10 that goes away from the depreciation base. But apart from that, you should be pretty close to what you're saying. Okay.

55:19 Thank you.

55:28 So, with that, it looks like we're coming to the end of the questions. And I would just like to wish all of you I look forward to seeing most of you. Well, some of you we will talk to at least through a press release in early December with the guidance. Otherwise, we'll see you all in this setting in three months from now. Thank you.