ASE Technology Holding (TWSE:3711) Q1 2026 Earnings Call

0:00 Hello. I am Ken Shiang, the Head of Investor Relations for ASE Technology Holding. To our first quarter twenty twenty six earnings release. I am joined today by Joseph Tung, our CFO. Thank you for attending our earnings release today. Please refer to our Safe Harbor notice on page two. All participants consent to having their voices and questions broadcast via participation in this event. If participants do not consent, please do not ask questions or you may leave the session at this time. I would like to remind everyone that the presentation that follows may contain forward looking statements. These forward looking statements are subject to a high degree of risk and our actual results may differ materially.

0:47 For the purposes of this presentation, dollar figures are generally stated in New Taiwan dollars unless otherwise indicated. As a Taiwan based company, our financial information is presented in accordance with Taiwan IFRS. Results presented using Taiwan IFRS may differ materially from results using other accounting standards, including those presented by our subsidiaries. For today's presentation, I will be going over the financial results and Joseph will then provide the company's guidance. We will then be available to take your questions during the Q and A session that follows. Our business throughout the first quarter remained resilient. Typically, we would expect to see manufacturing seasonality as many consumer and corporate products wind down at the end of the calendar year.

1:42 This year, we saw such seasonality in our EMS business while demand for our ATM services did not slow at all. Even with less working days during the first quarter, our ATM revenues grew sequentially. We experienced continued strength in our LEAP services and traditional advanced packaging, while our wire bond also saw some pickup. As our product mix shifts, typical seasonality may become more muted as AI related products do not appear to follow the same seasonal patterns as typical consumer driven devices. Our blended factory utilization rate was around 80% for the quarter. This percentage can be slightly misleading. Loading was actually a little better. However, we have been installing additional LEAP manufacturing capacities that are expected to start generating revenues weighted towards the fourth quarter.

2:36 We are also consolidating traditional capacities. These transitional activities would naturally bring down the blended utilization rates. As production resources get tighter, it needs to be emphasized that customers prefer manufacturing certainty. They like to know precisely the timing and pricing of wafers, substrates, packaging and testing services. As uncertainties arise at key manufacturing points, customers perceive supply chain risk for their products. Our capacities along with those of our upstream foundry partners are finite with limited ability to be pulled forward at this point. With that said, we are seeing strength not only in our LEAP related capacities, we are also seeing strong demand in wirebond and traditional advanced packaging.

3:29 From a financial perspective, first quarter ATM revenues came in slightly ahead of our expectations. We saw slight pickups throughout our customer base, especially as it relates to computing related products. We also saw incremental improvement in our profitability due to this pickup with gross margin outpacing our original expectations. Our EMS business slowed slightly due to underlying product seasonality as per our original expectations. Please turn to page three where you will find our first quarter consolidated results. For the first quarter, we recorded fully diluted EPS of $3.08 and basic EPS of $3.24 Consolidated net revenues were $173,700,000,000 representing a decrease of two percent sequentially and an increase of 17% year over year.

4:31 On a US dollar basis, our sales decreased by 4% sequentially and increased by 22% year over year. Our gross profit was $34,800,000,000 with a gross margin of 20.1. Our gross margin improved by 0.6 percentage points sequentially and by 3.3 percentage points year over year. The sequential improvement in margin is primarily due to NT dollar depreciation. The annual improvement is primarily due to a higher mix of ATM revenue in addition to higher ATM factory utilization, offset in part by the annual appreciation of the NT dollar. We estimate that foreign exchange had a positive 0.6 percentage point impact to our gross margin sequentially and a negative 1.2 percentage point impact annually.

5:24 Our operating expenses increased by 300,000,000 sequentially and $2,100,000,000 annually to $17,300,000,000 The sequential increase in operating expenses is primarily due to higher R and D labor related costs. Meanwhile, the annual increase is primarily due to higher R and D labor related costs and to lesser extent R and D supplies and other non R and D labor related expenses. Our operating expense percentage eased 0.4 percentage points sequentially to 10% and declined 0.3 percentage points annually. Operating profit was $17,500,000,000 down 200,000,000 sequentially and up $7,900,000,000 year over year.

6:16 Operating margin was 10.1%, up 0.2 percentage points sequentially and up 3.6 percentage points year over year. During the quarter, we had a net non operating gain of 700,000,000 Our non operating gain for the quarter primarily consists of net foreign exchange hedging activities offset in part by net interest expense of $1,600,000,000 Tax expense for the quarter was $3,600,000,000 Our effective tax rate for the quarter was 20.0%. Net income for the quarter was $14,100,000,000 representing a 4% decline sequentially of $600,000,000 and an 87% increase annually of $6,600,000,000 On page four is a graphical presentation of our consolidated quarterly financial performance.

7:13 The chart effectively shows the impact of ATM business growth and its impact to our consolidated holding company level results. For the first quarter this year, our ATM business represented 65% of our consolidated holding company revenue while representing 91% of our operating profit. This is compared to 58% of consolidated holding company revenue while representing 86% operating profit in the first quarter last year. On page five is our ATM P and L. The ATM revenue reported here contains revenues eliminated at the holding company level related to intercompany transactions between our ATM and EMS businesses.

7:58 For the first quarter of twenty twenty six, we had record revenues for our ATM business of $112,400,000,000 up $2,700,000,000 from the previous quarter and up $25,800,000,000 from the same period last year. This represents an increase of 2% sequentially and 30% annually. Our ATM business was able to avoid a seasonal decline in revenue during the first quarter, upsiding our original expectations. We also delivered higher than expected margin performance via improved profitability from higher utilization of equipment. However, we were unable to avoid the higher running costs during the Lunar New Year holidays.

8:45 Gross profit for our ATM business was $29,200,000,000 up $400,000,000 sequentially and up $9,600,000,000 year over year. Gross profit margin for our ATM business was 26%, down 0.3 percentage points sequentially and up 3.4 percentage points year over year. The sequential gross margin decline was primarily due to a higher rate of labor during the Lunar New Year holiday and also a higher percentage of depreciation from preparing equipment for further expansion. These negative impacts were mostly offset by a positive foreign exchange environment and efficiencies from higher loading.

9:34 Meanwhile, the annual gross margin improvement was primarily due to higher factory utilization and a higher LEAP product mix offset in part by negative foreign currency impact. As a note, during this year, we see our depreciation rising faster than revenues as a result of our ongoing investments in LEAP. The granularity of our OS and full process LEAP equipment differs from our more traditional advanced packaging lines. Our LEAP lines must be installed at scale and together as a full set of differing machinery instead of in small incremental units like wire bonders and testers. This results in our LEAP lines taking a greater amount of time to bring up and tune when compared with more traditional packaging capacities.

10:20 Currently, our full process LEAP lines are in the midst of tuning and qualification. As a result, we will continue to see gradually increasing depreciation without significant amounts of associated revenue during the tuning and qualification period. Meanwhile, revenues associated with these full process lines will ramp mostly during the fourth quarter. With that said, we continue to believe our margins will increase sequentially quarter over quarter and reach the higher end of our structural margins by the end of the year. During the first quarter, operating expenses were $13,300,000,000 up $600,000,000 sequentially and $2,000,000,000 year over year. The sequential and annual increases and operating expenses are primarily related to higher overall R and D costs and labor expenses.

11:20 Our operating expense percentage for the quarter was 11.8%, increasing 0.2 percentage points sequentially and down 1.2 percentage points annually. The sequential increase was primarily due to relatively higher R and D labor costs. The annual decline was primarily due to higher revenues generating a higher operating leverage during the quarter. During the first quarter, operating profit was $15,900,000,000 representing a sequential 1% decline of $200,000,000 and a 90% annual increase of $7,500,000,000 Operating margin was 14.1% down, 0.6 percentage points sequentially, while up 4.5 percentage points year over year.

12:14 On page six, you'll find a graphical representation of our ATM P and L. The chart highlights the improvement in our gross profit margin. It should be noted here that our second and third quarter twenty twenty five margins were heavily impacted by NT dollar strengthening. On page seven is our ATM revenue by the 3C market segments. LEAP services are primarily used within our computing applications with a lesser amount being used in the communications applications for infrastructure hardware. As can be seen here, the computing application percentage has been growing steadily with our communications segment declining. Our automotive consumer and others application appears to be consistently growing in line with our overall ATM growth.

13:08 On page eight, you will find our ATM revenue by service type. We did not see any meaningful changes here during the quarter. On page nine, you can see the first quarter results of our EMS business. During the quarter, EMS revenues were down 10% sequentially and 1% annually to $61,900,000,000 Sequentially, our EMS businesses gross margin increased by 0.5 percentage points to 9.5%. This change was principally the result of product mix. Operating expenses within our EMS business decreased by $300,000,000 sequentially and increased by $100,000,000 annually. The sequential decline is primarily the result of lower profit sharing during the quarter. The slight increase annually is primarily attributable to higher R and D headcount.

14:02 Our first quarter EMS operating expense percentage of 6.4% was up 0.2 percentage points sequentially and 0.1 percentage point annually. The sequential and annual operating expense percentage increases are due to underlying product revenue seasonality relative to more stable operating expenses. Operating margin for the quarter was 3.1%, up 0.3 percentage points sequentially and 0.5 percentage points year over year. The higher operating margins are primarily the result of product mix. Our EMS first quarter operating profit was $1,900,000,000 down $100,000,000 sequentially and up $300,000,000 annually.

14:49 On the bottom of the page, you will find a graphical representation of our EMS revenue by application. The communications applications decline is primarily due to underlying product seasonality. The computing applications increase is primarily due to a pickup in new AI accelerator products. On page 10, you will find key line items from our balance sheet. At the end of the year, we had cash, cash equivalents and current financial assets of $114,000,000,000 Our total interest bearing debt decreased by $7,600,000,000 to $265,300,000,000 Total unused credit lines amounted to $419,400,000,000 Our EBITDA for the quarter was $38,200,000,000 Our net debt to equity this quarter was 40%.

15:45 On page 11, you will find our equipment capital expenditures relative to our EBITDA. Machinery and equipment capital expenditures for the first quarter in U. S. Dollars totaled $1,000,000,000 of which $636,000,000 was used in packaging operations, dollars $327,000,000 in testing operations, 40,000,000 in EMS operations, and $1,000,000 in interconnect materials operations and others. In addition to spending on machinery and equipment, during the quarter, we also spent $771,000,000 on facilities. With that, I'll hand the presentation over to Joseph to present the company's outlook.

16:33 Thank you, Ken. Before we get into the guidance for second quarter, I would like to give you a bit of a color for the full year. Now first of all, we are upping our CapEx for the year, which includes additional $900,000,000 for buildings and infrastructure as reflected in our recent announcements. And an incremental US0.6 billion in machinery driven by a stronger demand for LEAP services this year and next. The majority of this additional machinery CapEx will be allocated to LEAP, particularly wafer sort and expected to be deployed in the fourth quarter to support capacity ramp up in 2027.

17:25 For ATM 2026 revenue, we now expect LEAP services revenue to be around 10% above our prior guidance, reaching over US3.5 billion While the mainstream segment remains on track to grow at a similar rate with last year. And for 2027, we continue to see strong lead business momentum and expect even stronger incremental revenue growth this year. Lastly, on ATM profitability, our strong market position continues to support a favorable pricing environment throughout the year.

18:10 We reported first quarter ATM gross margin of 26%, which is ahead of our original expectation of 24.5%. As we continue to expect sequential improvement for ATM margins, the second half gross margin to reach the upper end of our structural gross margin range. Second quarter gross margin improvement, however, will be partly offset by higher costs associated with early resource deployment for product transitions. Now with that, let me give you the second quarter outlook. Based on our current business outlook and exchange rate assumption of US dollar to NT31.8 dollars management projects overall performance for the second quarter of twenty twenty six to be as follows.

19:07 At the consolidated level, in NT dollar terms, our consolidated second quarter revenues should grow by 7% to 9% quarter over quarter. Our consolidated second quarter gross margin should increase by 20 to 100 basis points quarter over quarter. Our consolidated second quarter operating margin should increase by 50 to 120 basis points quarter over quarter. For ATM, in NT dollar terms, our ATM second quarter revenue should grow by 9% to 11% quarter over quarter. And our second quarter gross margin should be between 26% to 27.

19:59 For EMS, in NT dollar terms, our EMS second quarter revenue should grow at least 10% year over year. Our EMS operating margin should be similar with second quarter twenty twenty five levels. With that, I'll open the floor for questions. Thank you. During the Q and A session that follows, we would appreciate it if your questions could be as clear and concise as possible and asked singularly. We will start by taking questions from participants online. As moderator, I will be receiving each question and repeating and directing each question individually. After a participant's initial question, he or she may ask a follow-up question, clarifications of the earlier question, or another question entirely.

20:52 Then we will move on to the next caller. So with that, let's see if we have first call. We have our first question from Mr. Gokul Hariharan of JPMorgan. Hi, good afternoon. Great results. Congratulations on that. Thanks for the opportunity, Joseph and Ken. First question is on LEAP. So the 10% upside in LEAP in 2026, could you talk a little bit about what is the reason for that? Is it mainly coming from on substrate and wafer sort or any composition? And also just to clarify, 27%, you said LEAP could grow at similar kind of stronger incremental revenue growth than this year. So this year is around $2,000,000,000 incremental revenue based on the new guidance. So are we implying that next year LEAP can grow at 2,000,000,000 plus kind of incremental revenue?

21:54 Is that how we should read that statement? And any early read on what is the composition of LEAP next year? Okay, who's looking for clarification on our LEAP guidance for CapEx? And, actually, just primarily on revenue side, right? Yes, revenue, yes. This year and the 10% upside where it's coming from and 27 like the $2,000,000,000 or more than $2,000,000,000 incremental revenue, just want to clarify that's what you meant. For this year, I think we are seeing stronger than anticipated demand, particularly in the LEAPS part of the business. And as such, we need to increase our CapEx to support that expansion.

22:44 And also lot of the increase of CapEx is really to prepare ourselves for next year's ramp up as well. In terms of momentum, I think both for assembly in terms of lead services both in terms of assembly and test we are growing at pretty much the same pace. And in terms of combination, I think it's about 75% in assembly and 25% in tests. With tests we have about 75 in wafer sorts and 25% in final tests. And I think on '27, could we talk a little bit about, I think, Joseph, you mentioned incremental growth can be higher than this year. So does that mean that we can grow from the 3,500,000,000 this year to at least $5,500,000,000 next year? Is that what you imply?

23:48 I'm only implying that we are continuing to see very, very strong momentum going forward into 2037. And the $2,000,000,000 or $1,900,000,000 is really just to serve as a baseline. In fact, we can safely expect even stronger momentum than that. Although I'm not giving out particular number at this point. Understood. And just within that 2027 LEAP, any context on the full process cohorts like a full process forecast kind of composition? And are you getting do you think that you will have some accelerator related AI accelerator related full process revenue in '27 or is it going to be mostly like the CPU and some of the other AI adjacent kind of full process revenue?

24:49 I think right now the full process is going on track and we still believe that we can reach this $300,000,000 revenue mark for this year. As we continue to expand that part of the capacity, I think for next year we can see quite substantial growth in that area as well. And also not just on the revenue growth, we're also expanding our customer base in this particular area. And we believe that any other application that would be moving into COA like kind of packages, I think we will be able to entertain those part of the request.

25:39 Understood. My second question is on gross margins, Joseph. You're already reaching probably the higher end of the structural range of gross margin, and you're already like at the midpoint in Q1 and Q2. Why not raise the structural range of gross margin given you have higher margin products coming in next year as well with full process and more testing as well? Like, is there anything that is holding you back from kind of raising the gross margin range, structural gross margin range? Gopur, you're looking for more clarification on the context of our structural margins? Yes. Thank you. Well, I think things are moving very fast at this point in this very dynamic. And I think we will of course, we already said that even in first quarter and second quarter, are ahead of our original expectation in terms of margin improvement. And we are even more confident now that in second half we'll be reaching the upper end of the structural margin. But I think at this point because things are moving very fast, I think we will rather wait till things are more settled.

26:58 Maybe next year we will review the situation and see if this is justifiable to revise up our structural margin. Is there any risk factor that holds you back? Is it just the depreciation growth is very strong? Or is there anything else that is holding you back? But I wouldn't call it holding us back. I would say that because as Ken is mentioning, right now the investment or the CapEx that we put in are in pretty good, pretty large chunks rather than four. We can incrementally add capacity. So, and before the capacity is fully ramped up, it's kind of that normally creates some pressure on the margin during the ramp up stage.

27:54 So we need to wait until a more steady state kind of situation before we can find the suitable range for our margin. Got it. You can leave some more good views for later. Thank you. I'll go back to the queue. All right. Our next question is from Ms. Sunny Lin of UBS. Good evening. Could you hear me okay? Yes. Thank you very much for taking my questions. Congrats on the very strong results.

28:39 So my first question is actually to get your thoughts on CPO. And so would you be able to share a bit more color on what will the role that ASE can play for CPO's packaging and test? And how should we think about the revenue opportunity ASE from CPO? And when would you expect the sales to start to contribute to ASE from CPO? So Sunny's first question refers to the context of CPO and the various financial aspects of that, right? Yes, thank you. We are working very closely with the upstream foundry as well as our customer, the end customer in terms of the development of CPO. Right now we don't have a number for it.

29:30 But what I can say is once it gets into volume scale that we would definitely be a very, very critical partner within the overall effort. And I think things are moving on track and we continue to make progress on this CPO development. Got it. So, I follow-up? And so one, what will be the timeline that you start to expire in contribution? And then secondly, in terms of packaging and test, what may be the role that ASE may play if you could share them more details?

30:19 No, I don't have that much of a detail except we will start with the packaging part of it. And eventually, course the test is more complicated than the regular chips that we are testing now. So, I think things will have to sync up our technology roadmap with our partners and also our customers to find the most suitable work combination between the three of us. And whatever happens it will be a natural division of works for each of us to do what we do best. Thank you very much. And my second question is on CapEx.

31:08 And so now with the higher CapEx for this year, capital intensity should be above 30%. And so how should we think about the capital intensity for the company maybe one to two years? Should we expect given a very strong demand, you need to continue to accelerate capacity expansion and therefore, capital intensity will remain high at about 30? Or should we think about maybe in 2027, given the revenue generation, maybe CapEx will start to slow in terms of intensity? How should you think about the growth between the sales and CapEx? So you're looking for clarification on our CapEx trend going forward and the capital intensity involved, right? Yeah. Well, we're still in this mega trend and we're certainly not gonna be shy about making the necessary investment, not only just on the capacity itself, but also on the R and D spending that we need to put in.

32:10 And from the momentum that we're seeing now, I would expect pretty heavy CapEx for this and maybe even going into next year. Although, as I said, things are moving very fast and there's a lot of variables in front of us. I cannot give you a number at this point, But I would say that, Neil, we will be making the necessary investments and we do have multiple cost effective funding sources that we can leverage on to continue to support the CapEx requirement that we will be facing for this year and also next year.

32:57 Thank you. Also, if I may have a follow-up. And so earlier, you mentioned lots of capacity expansions through this year for the output from Q4. So we'd be fair to say that for a lift, We should expect a pretty meaningful step up in terms of revenue going to Q4. And that should meaningfully improve your gross margin on a sequential basis. So while the direction is upward in the coming few quarters, but in terms of magnitude, you expect a pretty meaningful expansion from Q3 into Q4, given a lot stronger LEAP growth. Sonya, first of all, I don't see how that's a follow-up.

33:44 But I guess I'll ask it for you're looking for basically type of trend we're looking at in terms of leap given that we're upping the outlook currently. Is probably the right summary of that? Yeah, sure. Thank you, Ken. Yes, I think from the get go, I was saying that no, we're still expecting a very strong year going into 2027 as well. And particularly the leaf services, we do see the need to up our CapEx to support that momentum. And I think I already answered Gokul's questions that we are right now we're expecting even stronger incremental revenue growth for next year in terms of LEAP.

34:44 And you know, whatever that we're seeing this year, the incremental revenue will serve as a baseline for us and we do see further potential for further upside. Very clear, thank you very much. Next we have Ms. Laura Chen of Citi online. Yes, hi, good afternoon. Can you hear me? Yes. Yes, thank you for taking my question. My question is also regarding our LEAP advanced packaging progress. We know that ASE also build up your own full process.

35:29 So I'm just wondering that for our like a 3,200,000,000 and even stronger growth into next year, how should we think about that, the full process of our LEAP business? And what would be the gross margin profile comparing to the substrate part. Laura, you're looking for more expansion on our full process business opportunities. Is that correct? Yes. What's the percentage and also what the gross margin profile? Thank you. Think we, like I said, we are on track at whatever capacity that we're putting in and the customer engagement that we are having at this point.

36:22 We do see very good potential going forward as we have multiple customers requesting for this kind of capacity. But this is a very complex process that we need to go through. And we are in the midst of trying to tune up capacity as well as the yield that we can generate. So we're take going one step at a time at this point in time. Although we do see very good potential, but we want to be cautious in know, making this part of the business with the good execution. And so at this point I think it's not very easy for us to say to give you a number for the business for this business for next year.

37:21 But all I can say is we do see very potential and that it's just a matter of how we can quickly execute the expansion plan. Sure, that's fair and very clear. And also my following question is just wondering that as we see that many of your clients or the AI chip makers, they are looking for various different back end support, including the panel base or large like radical support from the OSAN, not just at the foundry side. So I'm just wondering that how is the progress at ASE on the panel base? And how would you think about these business opportunities in your lead revenue?

38:10 Laura, you're looking for our opportunities in terms of supporting large radical size manufacturing panel, right? Yes, the panel base, like a reticle, that kind of packaging design. Thanks. Yeah, on panel I think we're also on track and right now we have already installed a fully automated pilot line for customer qualification. We do expect to have starting with small mass production volume starting from next year. And we'll see how it goes from there at that point on.

38:57 And I think in terms of the panel, right now it's still at its early stage. It is something that's going to happen but we're still at the early stage of the overall development and how the industry's infrastructure will be built remains to be some work to be done going forward. Yes, there is potential for that and if anything else we'll be the first to start the capacity ramp up. Sure, and we'll wait for more details. Thank you. Charlie Chan of Morgan Stanley will be the next to ask questions.

39:53 Thanks, Iris. Hi, Joseph. Hi, Ken. How are you? And also congratulations for very strong results and guidance. My first question is actually non AI or the circle of border semi. So over the past three months, do you see smartphone consumer selling demand bottoming out or it continues to deteriorate? Because we are getting a little bit confused why some of churn of foundry are hiking with the price. And second instrument also suggested they want to hyperprice, but overall end market demand are so weak. So just want to get some thoughts from management. Thank you. Charlie, you're looking for some characterization of our non LEAP related revenues and how we view that going forward, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. And also the tendency, whether it's getting better or getting worse and how ASE kind of benefit or suffer from those incremental trends? Thank you.

41:03 I mentioned earlier on that we are maintaining, I think the general market revenue growth is well maintaining the same guidance as we made last quarter, which is a repeat of last year's growth rate above 13%. And yes, we do see that the PC and cell phone market softness continues and it seems to be softening a bit more. But on the other hand, I think a lot of the softness is being picked up by the more IC contents in devices, different devices.

41:52 We're seeing the AI peripheral chips emerging and we are seeing good recoveries in terms of automotive and industrial segment. So everything together, I think we're still very, very confident that we will repeat our last year's growth in terms of general market. I see. So can I clarify with Joseph, what did you mean by the AI peripheral chips? We do have some sense, right? But I just want to get some clarification from from Joseph. There are power related connectivity, sensors, all different kinds of edge devices that we'll be using for the which we don't we were dividing this general market with the LEAP.

42:54 So it's not in the industry segment per se kind of a differentiation or segmentation. We're just only looking at the process itself to decide what's in our market for us. I see. Thanks for the clarification. And my second question is actually about your pricing strategy. I mean, you're investing heavily, but there is also some cost increase from the recent geopolitical events, right? So I just wanted to get a sense, what was your prediction for your fab utilization in the coming quarters? And would you translate that sort of tightening into further pricing power to your customers?

43:49 So I believe, Charlie, you're asking what the impact of recent political volatility would be on our pricing and then also different components that go into what we do, what our pricing strategy is relative to our services that we provide. Is that correct? Yeah. Yeah, thanks, Ken. Yeah. So, maybe it's like from a strategic perspective, One is that you can just passively pass through those additional costs, like you said, right? There's a increase in energy costs or chemical costs. I'm not sure how much of a chemical cost you have exposure to.

44:39 Think Or differently, Your fab in coming quarters, the utilization continue to be getting higher and you feel like it's sustainable. So why don't you further kind of hike your price and it's more like a proactive price hike? Well, I can never give you a direct answer on that whether we're going to raise our prices or not. What I can say is we will continue to seek for the suitable pricing strategy given the situation and also considering the customer relationship that we need to maintain. Also, we will set the pricing to reflect the margin requirement that we will have for ourselves.

45:28 See. Whatever looks like the cost increase there is because of the all the market uncertainties that those can be fully passed through. And also at the same time, we will continue to set the pricing to reach our margin requirement. Okay, thank you. That's very clear. Thanks Joseph. Next we have Haf Liu of DOSA. Haf? Okay, thank you. Thanks, Joseph, Ken, and Iris for taking my questions, and congrats on the solid results and guidance. I guess my first question is also a follow-up on the near term guidance.

46:18 Just want to get more clarity regarding your view on what is going to be the key driver for a second quarter sequential growth for your IC ATM business? Could you be able to quantify it between LEAP versus traditional business on the growth momentum? And then I think a quick follow-up also on the full year outlook for your overall IC ATM business that you did provide more detail on the lending business and the reason why you are still holding that kind of growth guidance similar to last year. But would you be able to provide the breakdown on the unit and also pricing assumptions for that kind of growth outlook? I was just wondering if in the past three months if there's any like meaningful change on the mix of assumptions on the pricing that you may be able to improve your pricing further or you simply have not yet seen your customers have been cutting their orders at this stage.

47:15 So just want to get more clarity on the second quarter and also full year IC ATM growth momentum between LEAP versus LEAP business? Hass, I believe you're looking for clarity between on our guidance relative to LEAP and non LEAP context. Is that correct? Yes, on a quarterly basis as well as on the full year outlook basis. Thanks. I think second quarter revenue growth is really top based. I think both LEAP as well as the general market, we're seeing similar kind of a growth to support the quality growth of revenue for us.

48:06 Think as I said, are more than doubling our LEAP revenue this year which is up our LEAP revenue by another 10% and showing the strong momentum that we're seeing at this point. General market, we continue to see same kind of growth rate from last year. And as I explained, I think although we're seeing some softness in some segments, do see that the so called AI peripheral, AI adjacent type of chips that are being brought on stream and then we're seeing the demand for those chips more than offset what we're seeing the softness in these particular segments.

49:06 Okay, I think just a quick follow-up here is that, to my first question is that, so you are actually not changing your pricing strategy in the past few months or in the next few quarters to reflect the potentially higher cost on the materials or the labors? You pretty much on an aggregate basis, you are not seeing much of the customers demand dynamic change in the past three months. Should I just make that kind of assumption for your full year outlook? I'm not sure I quite get your question. Can you? Yeah, yeah, was just trying to get more clarity that you simply are not seeing any of the order cuts from your customers even though that the market demand including a smartphone PC at this stage and also the overall end market demand is just tracking slower, but you are seeing incrementally automotive industry related demand and also some AI peripheral chipsets are making up some of the weakness in the other parts of the markets. So net net, are not seeing much of the unit demand weakness versus three months ago for your full year outlook. Is that correct?

50:23 Yes. Okay. Okay. Yes. And then my second question is on CapEx and also gross margins. Joseph, so you just mentioned that on the CapEx for this year, you raised it by like 10% versus your original guidance. And I understand there is a lead time between your pooling equipment and build clean room versus it starts to contribute to revenue. But would you be able to help us to triangulate that growth rate or the incremental 20% hike versus the 10% hike in your lead business for this year? What is the main reason why that you raised your CapEx by 20% but in the meantime your lead business in general only being raised by 10%.

51:08 And on top of that I was just wondering with the current supply tightness in the back end equipment supply chain, do you think there is any further potential for you to raise CapEx throughout this year? If you would like to have more capacity being sold throughout the next few years? Thank you. And I will have a follow-up on the last minute. Hass, you're looking for commentary in terms of how our capital equipment expenditures are correlated to our leading edge advanced packaging revenue outlook. That correct? That's right. Thanks, Ken. Well, first of all, two thirds of the increase of our CapEx is for building and facilities. As we've been saying that the suitable new factory or facility is one of the gating factors for us to expand.

52:05 And in that area, we are making progresses as shown in our past announcements that we've managed to start some of the building constructions and also to acquire some of the existing facilities that are suitable for our operation or for our lead services business operation. So, and for the machinery it's largely for next year's ramp up and the bulk of it or point 600,000,000 worth of the CapEx is really for wafer sort.

52:50 Would be the capacity will be ramped up in next year. And so for this year, whatever the capacity that we're building or the CapEx that we're spending for machinery should be sufficient to support another 10% growth in our leaf service. Got it. And then I think just a quick follow-up on this part of business. Think you got your follow-up earlier. Okay. Yes, sure. Sorry about that. Next, have Mr. Bruce Lu of Goldman Sachs. Hello.

53:39 Can you hear me? Okay, let me ask a simple question to save jobs for Cam. Can you give us an update for the global capacity investment, global capacity expansion? Global capacity expansion, you mean outside of Taiwan? Yes. US, Southeast Asia, anywhere, any places. So you're looking for a geographical differentiation between our capital expenditures? Is that what you're looking for? No. No. No. I'm looking for, like, is there any incremental update for your investment outside of Taiwan? Your current investment is mostly, you know, highly concentrated in Taiwan. You have limited capacity, you have limited the clean room, why not go outside?

54:30 I asked a couple of quarters ago and I'm going to ask again. I think outside of Taiwan, I think the main investment that we're making today is within Malaysia, where we announced that we've acquired a factory from ADI. And that will be used as our buffer capacity to serve the demand coming from outside of Taiwan. And in other areas I think we are making mostly maintenance kind of CapEx to support the operation there. However, aside from Malaysia I think we are also ramping up quite a bit in Singapore for our test operations, which is mostly to serve the AI related test requirement.

55:37 I see, thank you. I want to answer the next question. You give us some update for the profitability for the I think you are saying before but I want to accept it different for the full process of your live right because it's you know the CapEx requirement is higher that you know you guys might be low. You can might be unknown right at the current stage, but. Assuming the blue sky scenario once you eventually you would deliver that good yield with reasonable potential rate, can that? Can the full process profitability be higher than lead services gross margin or higher than the corporate average? Bruce, you're looking for our profitability potential of our full process leading edge advanced packaging lines going forward in the case that everything goes perfectly. Is that correct?

56:37 Yes. Which eventually will deliver. Well, we haven't reached the blue sky yet. So it's kind of difficult to answer that question. But in theory, it should be accretive to LEAP. Incredible to the lips? In theory, yes. Given the complexity of it. I see. Understand. Thank you. I don't have follow-up. Thank you very much. Next we have mister Rick Xu of Taiwan. Hello, Rick. Can you guys hear me?

57:25 Yes. Okay. Hi, Joseph and Ken. I just got one question here. I think for your very strong demand for your IC ATM, the driver behind that apart from AI and E and I, automotive industrial, Do you guys see any order pull in from your customers across the board because of a concern on the supply chain uncertainties? And if so, do you are you concerned about any demand rebalancing or order rebalancing in the second half? Because apparently, like Charlie said earlier, right, there is a disconnect between the end demand, non AI end demand and the wafer and chip loading?

58:19 Just my only question. So Rick, you're looking to see whether we see order pull ins and then how we may respond to such situations. Is that correct? Exactly, especially for second half. Yes, as I said, in certain segments, we're seeing softness, but those are more than offset being offset by the AI peripheral chips demand that we are getting. Yes, I think in the first quarter we are seeing stronger than normal seasonality demand may be coming from pull in. But having said that, we don't really have the capacity because our capacity is really limited.

59:11 So we don't have the capacity to entertain those porting demands, so to speak. So, I think our revenue is very solid. It's not because of, particularly in the first quarter's growth. I don't think it's because of the customers already pull in that really bumped up our revenue for the quarter. Okay, fair enough. Thank you so much. That's the only question I have. Thank you. You. Next we have Mr. Gokul Hariharan of JPMorgan coming back for the second round Q and A.

59:58 Yes. Hi. Thanks for the second chance. One question on CapEx. Just as the thing from what you're hearing from your customers and your foundry partner, could you talk a little bit about do you feel that this year is a peak of CapEx? Do you think that you will have to keep spending on CapEx even into next year given it feels like we're going to be a little bit free cash flow negative this year? So just wanted to understand how you're thinking about CapEx into next year as well. And if CapEx is going next year, any thoughts on how we are looking to kind of fund that CapEx in the next year? By the way, it's going, think next year could be another CapEx every year for us.

1:00:50 Okay. So we should assume that CapEx keeps growing next year then. Yeah. Well, it's more likely. Yes. Got it. And any any thoughts on the the the funding given that the cash flow is kind of probably kind of flattish or close to zero or negative this year given the heavy CapEx? Like is there any like new fundraising or something like that that we need to think about? Yeah, whatever the funding gap that we're going to have for this and next year. I'm not sure about next year though, but for this year, I think the funding gap will mostly be funded by additional borrowing.

1:01:44 Okay, okay. Which we have multiple sources for that. Okay, understood. Maybe one more question from my side is on the on the testing business. I think we did talk about final test as potentially something that we wanted to build with a large GPU customer. Is that still the objective right now or you are too busy with too many wafer sort kind of projects on hand to kind of really go and support that kind of demand with heavy capacity on panel test? Yeah, I think the primarily I think we will be focusing off our resources in wafer sort at this point. I think we are tight in both facility as well as in capacity. So, for the time being, think the main focus will still be on wafer sort.

1:02:50 Got it. Very clear. Thank you. Thank you. Next, we have Hass Liu of DOFA to ask questions. Yeah, yeah, thank you. I was not able to fully ask all my questions in the first half, but thank you so much for accommodating my additional questions. I think just on the back end equipment, the supply right now is getting tighter and the lead time for delivery is also getting longer. Do you think there's like further potential or possibility that you need to raise your CapEx again just to show your equipment supply chain or commitments or to ensure that you could expand the capacity as scheduled throughout this year if needed that you need to raise your CapEx again this year.

1:03:37 As you're looking for characterization on the likelihood of our ability to spend more on CapEx? Yeah, that's right. Yeah. This is a straight way to ask. Yeah. ASE is looking to understand whether we have any potential to increase our capital expenditures during this year. I wouldn't say no. I think that the, like I said, things are moving very fast and a lot of our forecast has been adjusted pretty rapidly at this point. And I wouldn't preclude that there will be further need for us to increase our CapEx for the year.

1:04:40 Okay, yeah, and my second question before I jump back to the queue is that I was wondering if you could quantify the impact of the new technology ramp transition related costs impacting your first quarter, second quarter or even like second half this year as you have more capacity gradually on the line but not yet entering to mass production at this stage contributing to your revenue. Would you be able to quantify the potential negative impact to your gross margins? Because we already see some of the mildly negative impacts in first quarter and also your second quarter outlook. And should we actually expect more of that negative dilution to happen throughout second half of this year before your full process or even other parts of the lead business capacity ramp is going to contribute to your revenue growth in the following year? Is that kind of a factor?

1:05:34 If you have any way to quantify any the potential negative dilution throughout the next few quarters would be pretty helpful. Hoss is looking to understand whether we have previously included the incremental depreciation into our original gross margin outlooks for the year. Is that correct? Yes, think when we look at the margin trend, of course, will consider all factors, the CapEx that we're going to make, including the timing of the revenues that will be generated. I think the margin profile that we presented in the beginning of the year remains the same.

1:06:24 That first half of the year, all quarters will be within structural margin range except first quarter we already ahead of our original plan. And second quarter, we remain to be very confident that we will be reaching the upper end of the margin range. Yes, everything is included and so far we haven't changed our view on the margin profile for the year. Got it. So is there any way you could quantify probably like 50 basis points or 100 basis point impacts to your first quarter and second quarter margins? And then into second half, if the similar like 50 to 100 basis point negative impact from that margin dilution for the capacity ramp, Is it like a reasonable assumption?

1:07:29 I think we haven't been able to necessarily release that as of yet, but there is expansion into the depreciation percentage. We have not been able to create an immediate dilution effect at this point. Maybe we can have that for you next quarter. Okay, got it. Thank you so much for your support. If you have any questions, please raise your hand. Next, we have Ms. Laura Chen of Citigroup who asked questions. Thank you. Just a quick follow-up. Thanks for taking my follow-up questions. I think just briefly talk about the CPU opportunities on the packaging and also the testing front.

1:08:19 Although it's still in relatively early stage. So can you share with us what would you see that the most difficult part or potential technology bottleneck and what ASE now is working and when would you see that will be kind of indicators we can see better breakthrough? So, you looking for an understanding as to where we see a technology bottleneck going forward? Yes, and what would be like a key what you point to we can't judge when it will be becoming stronger revenue catalyst at ASE. Well, as I said, this is a team effort between us and foundry partner as well as our customer.

1:09:12 I think at the end of the day each will be doing what they do best and there will be a natural division of works. I couldn't tell you know, is hard and what is not. It really depends on what our respective expertise is. And then, you know, suitable works will be allocated to different partners. So that's how the thing is being managed at this point. I think everybody understands that CPO is still it's a must have going forward but at this point it's still at a very early stage.

1:10:00 So, I think it's a bit premature to say when and how much is going to be a major revenue or profit contributor to us. Sure. Okay, thank you. Next, we have a question from Stephen Chang. Hi, thank you very much. This is Stephen from Asia Capital, and thank you for taking my question and congratulations for your good result and guidance. So two questions from me. The first is regarding the two fab acquisition for the past month you announced, one for steel and one for ASE.

1:10:49 I'm just curious now in what time frame you expect these two new acquired facility can start to contribute to the company revenue? Sabran, welcome to the call. You're asking about our two recent acquisitions in regards to buildings and facilities. Is that correct? Yes, that's correct. Thank you again. First of all, both buildings are going to be for LEAP services. And I think we will start ramping up progressively starting from early next year. Okay, yeah, thank you for that. So, just quick follow-up. So, if early next year and I think especially for the second step in the news release, you mentioned that is for the for the packaging.

1:11:48 So does that mean the tool installation for these two facility, the CapEx will be in this year or that will be in the next year? Thank you. You're looking for the timing of the facilitation and equipment of these two facilities? Yes, and also the impact of CapEx whether it's this year or next year. I think at least for equipment it will be for next year. And this factory will be how should I put this? Because the current facility needs to be vacated before we can start moving in and start installation.

1:12:42 And before that becomes available, there are also some construction works for facilities and some of the wiring construction that needs to be done. So, if we're breaking down the CapEx between for building facilities or for equipment, I think for the building part of it, it will start earlier. But for equipment, it will be starting from next year. Once the space becomes available and we progressively put the machinery scene. Thank you. Also, one last quick follow-up is, so we discussed about full service and even some new technology panel, but I'm curious if you can give us any color. How do you see co op right now?

1:13:39 Thank you. Oh, what? Yes, chip on wafer on PCB. Thank you. That's, I've seen that's further away. So, I'm not an expert in this. So, don't think I'm qualified to comment on that. Okay, got it. Thank you. No further questions from me. Thank you. Thank you. We don't see anyone raising their hands online now. All right. Thank you very much. See you next quarter. I think to sum up, we had a good quarter and we'll continue to have a good year. And next year we see a very, very strong momentum continuing.

1:14:26 And we will do our best to execute our expansion plan to meet the demand from our customers. And you know, we'll continue to see our profit return to expand. And come next year when things are more settled, we will be reviewing our structural margin range to make it a more suitable range for us. Thank you.