Ams-OSRAM (SIX Swiss: AMS) Q1 2026 Earnings Call

0:00 Good day, and welcome to the AMSS Osram q one twenty six results credit investor q and a call. My name is Regina, and I'll be your Evercore coordinator. The format of the call includes prepared remarks from the company followed by a question and answer session. At which point, attendees will have an opportunity to ask questions live. Attendees are also welcome to submit questions in writing via the ask a question button found on the upper right of the ZIELL roadshow. At this time, I will turn the call over to Nobel with AMSSY Osram. You may now begin. Hello. Good afternoon, everyone. Good morning to the YACs. If you're already up, this is Jurgen speaking. Welcome to today's call on our first quarter twenty six results, specifically for credit investors.

0:50 With me is Rainer, our CFO, who will walk you through the Q1 earnings call presentation. Rainer, the stage is yours. How did we do in Q1? Yeah. Thank you, Jorg. It's afternoon or morning in The US. Yeah, how did we do it? If look at the share price, we obviously did pretty well. Now, we quickly go through the presentation. Let's start with page three. Overall, we delivered a very strong first quarter and made further tangible progress towards our ambition of becoming a focused digital photonics powerhouse. On a like for like basis, our semiconductor corporate credit grew by 9% year on year, clearly underlining that our strategic focus is the right one. Group revenue came in well above the midpoint of our guidance range. Adjusted EBITDA reached the upper end.

1:41 The time win momentum continues unabated across all end markets. From a digital photonics perspective, we achieved two important milestones in the quarter. The first one, we are in the process of extending our portfolio of optical components that are decisive for the system performance of AI enabled augmented reality smart glasses covering key functional building blocks. And second, in iPhotonics, we signed a development agreement for highly parallel microemitter array based so called slow and wide optical interconnect targeting hyperscaler AI data centers. In parallel, we advanced on execution topics. The simplified transformation program is well underway.

2:27 Our balance sheet deleveraging plan progressed website. The sale of the entertainment industrial lens business to Regeo closed in early March and cash proceeds were received. The divestment of our non optical sensor business to Infineon remains well on track with unchanged timing for mid year 'twenty six. Finally, we delivered positive free cash flow in Q1. As expected, divestment proceeds to offset the seasonally high interest payments that took the occur in the first quarter. Now let's look at the details on page four. Q1 performance came in stronger than initially expected. Group revenues came in with €796,000,000 well within the upper half of the guidance stands, and adjusted EBITDA reached 6.5% at the upper end of the guidance, driven mainly by the West Division and a very strong automotive lens performance.

3:21 Year on year revenues declined slightly entirely due to the weaker U. S. Dollar with a top line impact of roughly €50,000,000 On a like for like basis at constant currencies, the group would have grown by approximately 8%. Adjusted EBITDA declined modestly year on year solely due to the deconsolidation of the specialty lamps business despite the FX headwind. And on slide five, OS held up very well in the typically soft first quarter. Revenues were almost flat quarter on quarter. We experienced supply constraints in selected product lines due to the short term order increases. Without those, even the sequential growth would have been possible. Margin declined sequentially due to higher gold prices and year price downs affected general first and FX effects.

4:12 However, it was two percentage points higher year on year reflecting higher production volumes that are not fully visible in reported revenues due to the weaker U. S. Dollar. The CSA delivered a solid performance in the seasonally weakest quarter. Results were driven by continued strong demand for custom center products in consumer handheld and a recovery in industrial and medical. Revenues were slightly lower year on year solely due to the declining contribution from exited non core portfolio activities. Profitability followed typical revenue fall through dynamics, however, but down year on year which is due to higher R and D expenses to fund growth projects and FX headwinds from top. Lambs and systems again delivered a very strong quarter.

5:00 Aftermarket demand remained elevated including short notice orders following financial difficulties of a competitor. Specialty lamps contributed for only two months because we sold them. The deconsolidation explains why reported revenues did not increase year on year. Strong production loading in Q1 supported profitability. Overall, it was mostly a strong quarter across the portfolio. And then on Slide six. Adjusting for the weaker dollar and non core portfolio contribution, the clean core portfolio in semiconductor grew 9% year on year. The non core portfolio is now largely one down with only residual contribution of the order of €10,000,000 contribute.

5:47 Looking at the markets, automotive was broadly flat versus typical seasonal slowdown. After a lackluster start early into the year, we saw a clear ordering uptick in February and March. Given the declining underlying vehicle production outlook, we interpret this as partial restocking after a prolonged period of very lean inventories combined with some level of precaution due to the turbulences in The Middle East. All regions performed sequentially better except China, where end market demand remained softer and competitive intensity is elevated. Industrial medical showed a clear recovery. Horticulture had a seasonal low point, but professionalizing demand was solid. Order intake improved materially and order patterns at the end of the quarter point to a solid seasonal upswing into Q2.

6:41 Consumer followed typical seasonal patterns sequentially. Year on year, the decline is explained by FX and the phase out of non core portfolio elements. Now, slide seven. Q1 is typically the weakest quarter for design win activity, yet momentum remains solid. Total design wins amounted around €850,000,000 Naturally, design wins are geared towards automotive, but the other verticals also contributed well. In our classic semiconductor core business, automotive remains the backbone with triple digit million euro contributions across the portfolio and strong momentum in forward lighting. Industrial showed very good traction, particularly in professional lighting with customers in The US and Europe, while horticulture performed materially better year on year.

7:34 Consumer continued to see recurring sensor design wins in Android based smartphones, particularly in display management. On the digital photonics side, progress was equally encouraging. The buyers continue to add platforms, taking the number of awarded platforms to wealth above 60. And interest for new designs remains strong, especially in China. Augmented reality, several of our existing components such as ambient light and spectral sensors, are already designed into smart glasses models available in the market. In AI photonics, product development for micrometer arrays for highly parallel AI optical interconnect has started. Hence, we are not doing this alone. We signed a collaboration agreement with a strong AI infrastructure partner.

8:27 We will now look at these digital photonic themes in more detail. Turning to slide eight. Augmented reality smart glasses are a key digital photonics growth theme. While the category is still at an early stage, adoption is accelerating even with today's limited functionality. AI is the game changer, making these glasses potentially the mid term replacement of our smartphones. Some of our sensors and LEDs are already designed into several commercially available smart glass models. Our current and future portfolio covers key functional domains, being health and well-being, sensors enabling measurements of parameters such as melatonin levels by blue light heart rate and UV exposure.

9:22 Privacy and camera performance, spectral and thicker sensors, as well as high performance LEDs. And then, probably most important, the display engine. Today, our LEDs illuminate LCOS displays. Going forward, micro LED arrays can enable substantially higher brightness, resolution, and power efficiency. World sensing comprises gesture and three d time of flight sensing, HMI. Today, we supply our proven proximity sensors. Tomorrow, we have the super tiny optical force sensing buttons in store. And eye tracking can be done with our integrated optical sensing solutions. This illustrates our strategy of focusing on decisive system components based on our core technology.

10:15 Content estimates measure burn depending on volumes, lifecycle stage, and customer implementation choices. For this, we see content potential between 50 and €100 per device, which underpins the triple digit revenue opportunities we outlined in launching our digital photonics strategy. Now on to our next highlight of today, turning to slide nine. Our progress in AI photonics is accelerating. I have three slides for you. First, where our products will sit in a data center second, how do we fit into the architecture and third, which components are we targeting?

11:02 We believe that the so called slow and wide optical interconnects based on highly parallel micro emitter arrays can play an important role in future AI data center architecture. Though slow is relative, as we are talking about eight gigabit switching speeds and hundreds of parallel channels. Initially, the focus is on shorter distance scale out interconnects, if you between racks, then scale up connections within REX, replacing copper over distances of up to several tens of meters. Over time, chip to chip interconnections, for example, between the GPUs and high bandwidth memory, could become addressable as well, a really great market potential for us.

11:56 Now slide 10, probably a bit more complicated, were very important to distinguish between integration concepts on the top and the optical engine technology itself. On the integration stage, today's solutions on the upper right rely on pluggable transceivers or active optical cables with energy consumption of up to 30 picajoules per bit, so quite high. In these solutions, not only the longer copper traces, but simply also signal shaping chips consume quite a lot of power. And in the center on the top, near port optics can reduce this to roughly five to 10 pJ per bit. The optical engine moves much closer to the ASIC.

12:49 And then finally, on the left, the co packaged optics, CPO, promises further reductions towards one to five pJ per bit over time. The optical engine moves as close as possible to the ASIC. Or simply, the closer the optical engine is to the chip, the lower the electrical losses and the associated thermal load. The slides illustrate this through distance comparisons. Independently of the integration approach, optical engines can be implemented either as fast and narrow or slow and wide solutions. Fast and narrow is today's established technology based on indium phosphide lasers, often EMLs, and silicon photonics integration concepts.

13:40 We believe in future slow and wide architectures, highly parallel micrometer array based optical engines that transmit light pulses at chip speed without the need for power hungry serializers and deserializers. Key advantages include substantially higher bandwidth density, very low power consumption per bit, and inherent redundancies through parallelism. If one micrometer fails, no worries, there are enough channels for backup, an important consideration for hyperscale customers. Now on slide 11, on the left you see our prototype, which helped accelerate the signing of a development agreement with our ecosystem partner, the leading AI infrastructure supplier.

14:32 The table in the center illustrates the simplified technology state for highly parallel optical interconnects. In essence, you can think of the transmitter side, the receiver side, and the advanced packaging technology that glues everything together. Our current development focus is on the transmitter side, micro lens and micro emitter areas. Given our CMOS and sensor capabilities, we are also evaluating opportunities beyond on the receiver side. We will keep you updated as development progress. Let us now look at selected financials. Slide 12 generated €37,000,000 free cash flow in Q1, which includes $90,000,000 divestment proceeds.

15:25 Cash inflow from the sale of the specialty lens business was received early March. Operating cash flow had breakeven, reflecting seasonally high interest payments on our senior notes, higher, as you know, than a year ago after the $500,000,000 tax last summer. CapEx remained disciplined and well below our full year guidance of 8% of revenues. With that, let us take a quick look at our simplified program that we launched with Q4 announcement on February 10. And that is on slide 13. Last quarter we reported that ReStabies the Base has delivered its savings one year early, the implementation of the remaining measures that we identified will continue.

16:12 The Reestablish the Base program delivered €230,000,000 of savings, which is really a great success. February now we launched the successor program called Simplified, which is a broader transformation program aimed at reshaping our operating model and delivering €200,000,000 of additional annual savings by 'twenty eight. All savings measures have been identified and 90% of the high maturity level. Cost, speed, agility are our guiding principle as we reshape our operating model. Implementation started immediately, and after just one quarter, teams have already delivered €5,000,000 of realized savings, demonstrating disciplined execution continuity.

17:00 Now let's look at liquidity and capital structure on Slide 14. As you know that very well, we run the interest payments for our senior notes with you with the cash proceeds from the sale of the specialty lamps. The free cash flow was positive. The cash on hand position only reduced because we paid back €200,000,000 nominal of the convertible note, which an application now stands at around €1,300,000,000 end of March. With that, the creditable liquidity position closed accordingly at €2,000,000,000 which is the cash revolving credit facility and bilateral line.

17:46 The sale leaseback moved up a little with currency swings in the ringgit and with the quarterly interest accrual. With that, let us zoom in on the coverage of the upcoming short term maturities, very important slide, Slide 15. So we have €1,300,000,000 cash on hand. And when we enrich that with the €570,000,000 from Infineon at closing somewhere midyear, then the amount is close to €1,900,000,000 in pro form a cash. This company will cover all near term maturities and that is the outstanding '27 convertible, which now stands at €560,000,000 We received the money from Infineon. We have one hundred and twenty days to offer the amount related to guarantor assets as part to note holders approximately €130,000,000 And second, the business needs in gray for the transition effects in '26.

18:47 Now, what is that? That is lower adjusted EBITDA because we're selling businesses and we have stranded costs that we will start cleaning up after it is closed, high transformation costs from the SIMPLIFY program. Will have quite some cash outflows this year for SIMPLIFY, And then we will be repaying $100,000,000 in customer prepayments this year. And we also will reduce factoring by about €100,000,000 Now excluding disclosure proceeds, expect something triple digit million negative. Now putting as much as possible into 'twenty six, starting clean into 'twenty seven, the 'twenty seven free cash flow will be substantially better.

19:41 In this business remains strong as we see it today. We expect the free cash flow to move to positive territory. Excluding disposal proceeds, and even that we need to repay a similar amount of customer prepayments. And third, it will cover the tendering of the Osram minority shares after the final verdict. We have assumed that for the second half of the year, so it could slip further out. And after all of that, that should leave us with around €500,000,000 in cash. And now this is, I think, very important when you look at that slide. All upcoming near term maturities are taken care of. We have the funds available.

20:28 And then thinking ahead, this allows us to focus conceptually on optimizing the cost and maturity profile of our twenty nineteen annuals. We will keep you posted what our plans are. Now summarizing on slide 16, in Q1, we've had again our revenue profitability guidance. CME core business grew 9% like for like. Free cash flow was positive, completed, reached every debate, and started executing simplified. In digital photonics, we continue to progress on a comprehensive component portfolio for AI enabled smart glasses in as a content opportunity between €1,500 per smart glass.

21:22 And we initiated the product development of micrometer based AI optical interconnects together with a commercialization partner. We also progressed on balance sheet deleveraging, especially Lam's transaction closed. Proceeds were received. The Infineon transaction remains on track. No changes to the indicated closing time limit of the year. And now finally, the outlook for the second quarter. We expect revenues between €725,000,000 and €825,000,000 adjusted EBITDA around 15.5 plusminus 1.5 percentage points at an exchange rate of 1.17. Now, the traditional auto lens business will show the usual seasonal slowdown in view of the overweight in the aftermarket.

22:15 Remember, all non automotive business transferred to ReShield. We still had €10,000,000 revenue in Q1 and zero in Q2. That's obviously the €10,000,000 reduction as part of the guidance. CMIs will make a step forward in Q2 more than just the seasonality. We see strong order intake and book to bill higher than previous quarters. Now, our full year 'twenty six outlook remains unchanged. Group revenues modestly softer given the divestments and the exchange rate impact. Adjusted EBITDA also around 15.5 plus minus 1.5 seemingly the FX at 170. Adjusted EBITDA will be negatively impacted by several one offs, the divestments, standard cost, precious metal prices for the good gold, and the other factors.

23:12 Free cash flow, certainly well above $300,000,000 including the divestment proceeds. And into 'twenty seven, we see a path to positive free cash flow not counting any potential divestment even that we still have to repay similar amounts, roughly $100,000,000 of customer prepayments. And with that, we are happy to discuss your questions. Thank you. We will now conduct a question and answer session. To enter the queue. Or if you have joined via web, please press the raise hand icon on the right side of your deal roadshow screen.

24:01 And if at any point you would like to submit a written question, click on the ask a question button on the upper right of your roadshow and submit your question. Our first question is a live question from Marco with Amova Asset Management. Marco, your line is now open. You may proceed. Thanks for taking my question. Congrats on the strong set of results. I just have a couple of questions, if I may. So the first one is just on the RCF. Were you able to extend RCF? Because last time you got it for mid twenty twenty six for the kind of extension surge. Could just provide some color there? And the second question is on the one off cost for 2026.

24:48 I heard earlier you mentioning 100 mil. Could you just confirm if it's 100 mil or 150 mil for this year? And then the third question is just on the AI data center opportunity. When is that expecting to see a sales potentially? Like, if you could just provide some color. And then also, a follow-up will be the time. Like, what sort of time could you, like, if you could just provide some sort of time the audience? Bill, I'm starting with the one offs. So, overall we believe that the program will have one off roughly $150,000,000 of that we already booked some last year.

25:36 A smaller portion, quite a bit, will come this year. And now I'm talking about the expense, right, booking the reserve. And there will be a bit more to come in the next year. Now the other question is how much of that is cash out? And we believe that the cash out for the program this year should be somewhere between 50,000,000 and $100,000,000 Now, the revolver, I would say we are in very progressed negotiations with the banks to extend that, final steps. Then the AI data center opportunity, yeah, I think it's very exciting. It will certainly be before 2030, hopefully before 'twenty nine.

26:37 And then the size of the opportunity, I mean, that is a bit of a difficult question depending on how much of the value we will add, if it is just a meter or if it is more a system. It is certainly three digitally an opportunity in 2030 and beyond with a gradual ramp. But in case we would do more, we would do also the photodiodes. We would do the driver or even the amplifier. Then it could be obviously a much, much higher number. We're discussing with a lot of different partners now, and there's a lot of different positions where we could play a role. Thanks for that answer. Sorry. Just one quick follow-up in terms of the development cost for this AI data center opportunities.

27:33 Like, would usually shoulder the cost? Would it be you guys or the client or is it both? Could just share that? Thanks. Yeah. I mean, in the case now where we work with a partner, we share the cost. We get NREs. But we are certainly also developing quite a few other things where we currently pay the cost ourselves. Thank Thank you, you. Marco. Our next question is from Laura with AMSS Investment Management.

28:19 Your line is now open. You may proceed. Hi there. Congrats on the great results. Thanks for taking my questions. Just a few, please. So regarding the senior unsecured notes, you said you'll keep us posted. I think previously you mentioned you would look to refi these into this early twenty twenty seven when the coal price stepped down. Is that still sort of your base case? Or are you potentially considering addressing these earlier? Then secondly, just regarding the converts, GBP 130,000,000, I think you need to tender for. Will you try and tender for more? Or are you just going to leave the remaining portion outstanding up until maturity and then redeem them with the liquidity that you have? And then two final questions. Performance EBITDA, I think previously you guided for $533,000,000 that was based on financial year 2025 where reported was six zero eight million So for 2026, should we expect this to be sort of lower because of obviously the cost overhang that you mentioned from the divestments?

29:17 And then lastly, the cooling plant, if you could just give an update on any discussions you may have or timing or what do you think is possible there with regards to an exit? Thank you. Laura, thank you. Yes, it was really a good quarter. Now, the senior notes, we're obviously prioritizing what options we have. '27 is kind of the base case, but we are certainly looking at the alternatives and kind of breakeven calculations. But we will talk about that when we have a conclusion. On the convert, yes, we have to make an offer for 130 at par.

30:04 We already made an offer earlier this year at a bit lower price, 200,000,000 were offered. We certainly want to optimize at what price we pay that back. I will probably make an offer, certainly another $100 And, yeah, if an amount keeps open, we will just let it then expire in September 27. On the EBITDA, so yes, there is a few things that are against us. The one thing that we said is the businesses we are selling, which is roughly $75,000,000 EBITDA on an annualized basis plus the stranded cost, maybe $100,000,000 together. And then we also have the headwind from the precious metals.

31:00 On the other side, obviously, we also have a business that is developing nice, but it will be quite a lower compared to last year and maybe it's a good idea to have a look at the consensus. Now, Kulen, to update, yes, now almost two years and a lot of parties look at it. We are not at the point where somebody made a concrete offer. Still talking currently to a few interested parties. It's nothing that we would sign within the next few weeks. But we see that the momentum in the whole SIM industry, particularly in the areas where companies might have interest in our facility, is picking up. So we remain optimistic that we will be able to resolve that.

32:00 Great. Thank you so much. Maybe one follow-up just with regards to the cooling plant. In terms of timing, you obviously said like not in the coming weeks, but you're confident to resolve this. So do you think, realistically speaking, it's more likely to be like a 2027 event? Is that fair? Laura. I mean, it's not fully in my hands, right? So we need a buyer who's willing to write a check. So I cannot give you any additional details on timing other than that the feedback we are getting remains to be very constructive and that we are positive that one day we will get such a check. Understood. Very clear. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Laura. We have two written questions from Christian with BlackRock.

32:54 The first question reads, on the FY twenty seven FCF outlook, how much of this target depends on a successful refi of the Sun twenty ninth? Or can you achieve it with current coupons? The second question is on factoring. What is the current level of nonrecourse factoring? And by how much do you plan to reduce usage of factoring? I'm trying to understand the question. Yeah, go ahead, Francois. Yeah, the first question regarding the free cash flow output, then obviously, we're looking at refinancing the main part of our high yield bond, the plan what we mentioned. And obviously, we need also to have better coupon. So with the current coupon, obviously, that would be a stretch to get there. But so that's the first question. Second question regarding the factoring.

34:02 Currently, are at $150,000,000 roughly. And we mentioned that over the course of the year, we are going to reduce the factoring level by roughly 100,000,000. So that's basically also costs we have to pay, and that will also reduce our interest going forward. Thank you. Our next question is a live question from Luke with PPM America. Luke, your line is now open. You may proceed. Hi. Good afternoon and congrats on the results. I wanted to ask about the AI optical solution. Is that being contemplated for a CPO solution?

34:49 And could that potentially be used in kind of NPO as well? Yeah. This is Juergen. I can answer that. I mean, as we tried to illustrate in the slide, in principle, can be used in various integration opportunities that are shown on the top slide. We can't go into very specific details right now, but what I can say, it's probably not going to be a CPO solution at the beginning. So, the customers we're currently working with are probably looking at different integration opportunities. And thanks.

35:37 Following up on that, I think you mentioned you are in discussions with other parties. Are those parties at a similar party ecosystem as your current partner? I know I think I've asked on the earnings call, you can't specify exactly who it is, but are you getting inquiries from kind of different areas in the broader logical side? Yes. Thanks for the appreciation that we cannot be very specific who it is and also not give too strict guidance that you might be able to single out. But what we can firmly say is it's not only on a similar integration level that we are speaking, but basically we're speaking with everyone because all these optical interconnect technologies, they affect various levels of the AI ecosystem and the infrastructure.

36:33 So we're not restricted to one level of integration, but there are many discussions going on. Thanks for the color there. And then lastly, you did mention some supply constraints on the optical side. What is the magnitude? Think optical would be positive sequentially if you had those resolved. What's the magnitude of the supply constraints and when should we see those resolved? Yeah, that were on some automotive products, emitter products, automotive LED products on the traffic side. And we've got basically a lot of surprise orders. And as Aldo mentioned earlier on the call today for the equity analysts that we probably also saw a little bit of ordering driven out of fear with all the Middle East crisis going on. And then we couldn't react as fast. So you asked about the order, probably a couple of million, as we indicated in one of the comments.

37:47 That could have pushed OS even in a growth quarter on quarter. It's not lost business, right? It goes into backlog and then it gets shipped with a slight delay. Mean, when customers come with these short term orders, I mean, that's what sometimes happens. But actually we were surprised by the amount of orders in terms of there are certainly areas where we need to expand the capacity. That's it for me. Thanks for the color and congrats on the results. Thank you, Luke. We have a couple of questions from Julian with margins.

38:34 First is, could you please quantify the impact of FX headwinds on the semi segment EBITDA? And could you please quantify the impact of the gold prices at group level? Yes, sure we can. I mean, the impact of the gold price at group level, we said that in the last call. We expect that headwind this year to be around €60,000,000 year over year headwind. We currently see that the gold price has come down a little, so it might be a little less. The first question, the impacts on FX, so why only on the semi segment. So in a simplified way, we typically say that $01 for the full year is around $20,000,000 of revenue.

39:35 And the fall through of that is kind of for the portion is somewhere $5.6000000 dollars or so percent. And that is true for all segments together. Thank to ask a live question today, that is star one on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. Or if you have joined via web, that is the raise hand icon on the right side of your Duo Roadshow screen. And if you would like to submit a written question, that is the ask a question button on the upper right of dual roadshow to submit your question.

40:29 Our next question is a follow-up question from Marco with Amova Asset Management. Your line is now open. You may proceed. Hi. Have to take a look. So just one quick clarification. So the your smartphone business and exposure to memory shortage, earlier on the call with early on equity hold you mentioned that the impact is minimal. Is that correct? Yes. That is correct. I mean, you always read that the memory shortage reduces smartphone sales. But kind of as our product are very overweight in the high end models, and we haven't seen any impact of the memory shortage on the high end models, so we really don't see all the staffing.

41:24 And just in terms of numbers, it's probably 600 mil. Yeah. Well, take the consumer share on the semi side, and they are probably a high majority from smartphones, but there is also a decent share of wearables and then a long tail of smaller ones. But it's certainly fully overweight on the smartphone side. Okay. Thanks. And I'll just squeeze another one in. As in terms of the the coupon that you're looking to lock in when you do the refi for the 2029 bonds, is is it is it fair to assume that you're looking for 5% to 6% coupon? As we said, we haven't taken a decision when to go ahead.

42:17 And then if we were to decide, we would certainly test the market and see what we can get. Okay, thanks. I'll use that. Thank you, Marco. Our next written question is a follow-up question from Julian with margins. In 2027, do you expect to receive a large inflow from customer prepayments similar to what it received in Q3 FY24? The customer prepayment thing in '24, that was a one time thing. Now we have to pay it back between Q1 twenty six and mid of twenty eight.

43:07 That is not something that we see frequently in our business. Thank you. And once again, ladies and gentlemen, to ask a live question, that is star one on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. Or if you have joined Violet, please press the raise hand icon on the right side of your dual roadshow screen. And if you would like to submit a written question, click on the ask a question button, type in your question, and submit. We will pause here briefly to allow any more questions to generate. It appears there are currently no further questions.

44:05 Handing it back to Rebel with AMSS Osram for any final remarks. Thank you, operator. Thanks, everyone, for dialing in, for the interest and the questions. If there will be any further questions, reach out to us at Investor Relations. With that, we wish you a great day and speak to you soon or latest next quarter. Thank you very much. This concludes today's other call. Thank you, and have a great day.